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I appreciate your comments, I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't share how you feel. I guess I just wanted to express how invalidated I felt when my close friend told me that her grief was worse than my grief. It's just not something I would ever say to another grieving person. For example, I also had friends who lost family pets shortly after I lost my husband. I expressed my condolances for their loss without feeling the need to tell them that their grief was not as great as mine.
Oh I totally get that!
I also didn't appreciate when a friend of mine, who lost her husband the following week, after a very long illness and a stint in hospice, told me "I think I'd rather have my experience than yours." I could have done without hearing that - and besides that, it's not just about her, or me - it's about the people who DIED for God's sake. I mean, we're left behind but my gosh, they are dead. Personally, I'm glad my husband died suddenly and quickly and wasn't sick and bedridden for months, but I didn't bother telling her that. Maybe I should have, who knows?
Yes, loss of a very significant relationship or significant other is loss of a very significant relationship or significant other, whether by death or divorce. Especially a significant other relationship which a person thought one would have for a lifetime or the remainder of one's lifetime.
One is robbed of having the significant other for a lifetime or remainder of life, whether by death or divorce (if one is rejected/dumped in a divorce in a marriage one thought would exist for remainder of one's life) and the love or emotional bond can be very deep. So one can grieve the loss of the significant relationship and have a wound whether by death or divorce.
Last edited by matisse12; 10-31-2021 at 03:11 PM..
Yes, loss of a very significant relationship or significant other is loss of a very significant relationship or significant other, whether by death or divorce. Especially a significant other relationship which a person thought one would have for a lifetime or the remainder of one's lifetime.
One is robbed of having the significant other for a lifetime or remainder of life, whether by death or divorce (if one is rejected/dumped in a divorce in a marriage one thought would exist for remainder of one's life) and the love or emotional bond can be very deep. So one can grieve the loss of the significant relationship and have a wound whether by death or divorce.
That's very true. And I speak from experience on that one.
But I am just saying that FOR ME, the pain of losing my beloved spouse to death - HIM DYING - which is forever - and he's just no longer in this world, no longer celebrating the things he loved, etc. - hit me a lot harder for longer than divorcing the father of my children. It was definitely painful - and for a long time - to go through that divorce though, don't get me wrong. It was terrible in fact.
But he's still alive and well, and single again (after another wife divorced him). Nope, I haven't even been tempted to contact him in any way but I hope he's enjoying himself.
I've been reading this thread since it started, but haven't posted much. I wanted to say a couple things about comparing the pain of divorce to the pain of a death.
1. It's different for every person, and the depth of the grief, in either divorce or death, is directly related to the depth of the love.
2. The hardest part of going through my divorce 14 years ago was the horrible lack of support. Side note: I had previously helped a friend after her husband died instantly in a car accident. She was showered with meals and gifts and flowers and love and assistance in a variety of practical ways.
When my husband and I separated, I was literally shunned and cut off by most of my friends, and even several family members. I was never so alone in my entire life, and I kept thinking how much easier it must have been for my friend whose husband had died. I was so envious of all the love and support she received.
The shunning I experienced happened for two reasons:
1) I had been in a fundamentalist church in which divorce was a sin and absolutely not allowed, and
2) my ex told lies about me that, for reasons I won't go into, I could not correct without causing further pain to my children. The best way to describe it is to compare it to being framed, and you just have to take the blame.
I literally lost my husband, my home, my home-based business, my friends, and several members of my family, the moment my ex physically and drunkenly forced me out of our home. He changed the locks the next day, filed for divorce, and got busy turning everyone against me.
Happy ending: I am now married to an absolutely wonderful man who cherishes and adores me! And if the day comes that I lose him, that would bring a pain so deep I don't know how I could ever recover. But....the pain of my divorce was huge too, and I survived, and eventually found intense joy.
I've been reading this thread since it started, but haven't posted much. I wanted to say a couple things about comparing the pain of divorce to the pain of a death.
1. It's different for every person, and the depth of the grief, in either divorce or death, is directly related to the depth of the love.
2. The hardest part of going through my divorce 14 years ago was the horrible lack of support. Side note: I had previously helped a friend after her husband died instantly in a car accident. She was showered with meals and gifts and flowers and love and assistance in a variety of practical ways.
When my husband and I separated, I was literally shunned and cut off by most of my friends, and even several family members. I was never so alone in my entire life, and I kept thinking how much easier it must have been for my friend whose husband had died. I was so envious of all the love and support she received.
The shunning I experienced happened for two reasons:
1) I had been in a fundamentalist church in which divorce was a sin and absolutely not allowed, and
2) my ex told lies about me that, for reasons I won't go into, I could not correct without causing further pain to my children. The best way to describe it is to compare it to being framed, and you just have to take the blame.
I literally lost my husband, my home, my home-based business, my friends, and several members of my family, the moment my ex physically and drunkenly forced me out of our home. He changed the locks the next day, filed for divorce, and got busy turning everyone against me.
Happy ending: I am now married to an absolutely wonderful man who cherishes and adores me! And if the day comes that I lose him, that would bring a pain so deep I don't know how I could ever recover. But....the pain of my divorce was huge too, and I survived, and eventually found intense joy.
Every grief is different.
I totally agree. I hope you were able eventually not to be envious of your friend, though. I don't even remember who came over, who brought meals, who sent flowers, etc. The days and weeks after my husband died were a blur to me. I do remember though being thankful that I didn't have to cook - which I wouldn't have done anyway. So there's that.
But I did have to actually GET RID OF literally hundreds of flower arrangements, which was no easy task, plus I felt guilty about throwing them away. But...pandemic. So they couldn't be donated, they had to be disposed of. I remember going into my bedroom and laying down after the funeral and when I got back up, my entire living room and dining room were filled with bouquets and plants. Ugh. Sorry but while I appreciated the gestures, in theory, the reality was that I had to throw all those away.
Oh and your friend had to pay for funeral expenses too - which in my case were far greater than the expenses of the divorce. And she lost everything too, believe me. Her world changed courses totally and suddenly, in a shocking way.
I am so glad you found such joy. That's what I want again some day. I can feel myself inching toward it but it's not really here yet. I get glimmers of joy now though, when I used to just feel only pain all day every day for months and months.
I know how you feel in many ways because I remember after I divorced my ex husband, months later when the seasons began changing, I found an old nightgown that I had worn when I was married, and I remember thinking about all those nights I'd gone to bed feeling the safety net (that I didn't even realize I was feeling) of the military, a roof over my head, no financial stress, the kids were little and sweet, etc._and I just fell on the floor in my closet, hugging that nightgown and sobbing. It was a terrible feeling and I don't mean to minimize it at all.
It was just that FOR ME, the sudden death of my beloved spouse, who I loved with every fiber of my being, and who was a fine man and a great husband, has been much, much more difficult to adjust to and to move past (nowhere near that in fact) than divorcing my first husband, who was abusive and who was unfaithful to me. There was an anger there that also gave me some strength. When my husband died, there was not much anger - just shock and grief. I don't miss my ex husband, but I miss my deceased husband terribly. And my pyschopathic, abusive ex husband is still out in the world living somewhere (probably wreaking havoc on someone), and my darling, precious, funny, handsome, honest, intelligent husband who I adored and who adored me is dead. So for me there is just a huge difference.
Divorces have their own challenges and griefs, for SURE. And like deaths, they're all different. And both are hard. Personally, for me, death is harder though.
I also didn't appreciate when a friend of mine, who lost her husband the following week, after a very long illness and a stint in hospice, told me "I think I'd rather have my experience than yours." I could have done without hearing that - and besides that, it's not just about her, or me - it's about the people who DIED for God's sake. I mean, we're left behind but my gosh, they are dead. Personally, I'm glad my husband died suddenly and quickly and wasn't sick and bedridden for months, but I didn't bother telling her that. Maybe I should have, who knows?
OMG!! Who says something like that????? a little cruel, if you ask me.
and FWIW, I agree with you, I'd also rather the sudden....I think nothing is worse than seeing a loved one wither away right before your eyes until the time came..
I think you did the right thing by not saying anything.
OMG!! Who says something like that????? a little cruel, if you ask me.
and FWIW, I agree with you, I'd also rather the sudden....I think nothing is worse than seeing a loved one wither away right before your eyes until the time came..
I think you did the right thing by not saying anything.
I think so too, but dang.
This person also knows that I have a very, very old dog that I seriously considered putting down a few months ago, but they changed her medications (which this person also knows) and she's doing much, much better. Well, this friend of mine also knows this too. And she knows that I actually have three dogs and one of them is the exact same age (13) as the old dog in question. So the other day, she sent me a message out of the blue that said "I hope Josie is doing fine." That's one of my two old dogs. I swear, it was like she was thinking that Josie might be dead by now and I'd be upset - and she didn't mind me being upset! Thankfully I was able to truthfully just reply, "She's doing great!" and I left it at that, but it occurred to me that this person is once again saying things that she thinks might hurt me. (This person does not love my dogs, by the way, so I don't know why she was even thinking about Josie. I mean, she doesn't hate them but she sure doesn't love them and has never asked about any of them before that I can recall.)
I don't get it. But I've been keeping her at a significant difference now for several months and I feel a lot better.
This person also told me "The ring you bought to replace your wedding band looks a lot like a wedding band itself." Well, actually no it doesn't. I mean, it just doesn't. I know what a wedding band looks like and this one is an antique filigree ring that looks nothing like any sort of wedding band or set. I think she is honestly just always trying to undermine me or say something that would stick in my craw. She's the person who still wears her wedding band though her husband has been dead over a year. I mean, that's fine but that's not my style.
She also couldn't believe that I went on vacation without her, and by myself. And then, the night before I got on the plane to go on vacation, she called me and said, "I hope you don't think I'm out of line, but I just have a really bad feeling about you going on vacation by yourself. I just don't think you are going to be safe." I said, "Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I feel fine about it and I'm looking forward to it - talk with you after I get back!" Honestly. I had a really nice time, BY MYSELF, and I was perfectly safe and everything went great. So I have no idea what all that was about but I just was not and am not going to fret over it.
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 11-01-2021 at 03:14 PM..
Kathryn, your friend doesn’t sound like a good person. I wonder if she’s jealous of you for some reason.
I don't know what her problem is but I've basically bowed out of the friendship. i mean, I haven't ghosted her and I respond in a short way to her text messages, but I don't call her and certainly don't get together with her, nor do I answer her calls or even listen to her voice mails. She's slowly getting the picture I guess, but she's very hard headed.
She is the one I've talked about who has no kids. Now - this was a choice she made - there was nothing keeping her and her husband from having kids. But he was older than her, and he already had kids, and he didn't want to have any more, so she chose not to have any. And that's fine, and they had a marvelous time together for many years, because he was in his prime, and the money was good, and they had no kids together, and his kids didn't live with them or even spend much time with them, so they were footloose and fancy free, and it worked out great for them. But that freedom comes with a price and one of those prices is that you run a big risk of facing your elder years alone, especially when your husband is older than you and his kids are close to their mom anyway and don't really see you as a mom figure. So that was the situation she was and still is in. Now her husband is dead and she feels like she has no one. Her parents are gone, she moved far away from where she grew up, and her only sibling lives overseas and has for decades. So she has tried latching on to me, to my kids, to THEIR kids, everyone. I swear, she would have married my dad if she could have, and I am being totally serious about that. And I'm sorry, but I don't owe her caring or much attention, and I do enjoy close relationships with my kids and grandkids, who also don't owe her anything.
It occurred to me only recently that maybe one reason I think older women gravitate toward me is because I am local, and I'm younger than them, and healthier, and I have kids and even big grandkids and I think some of these women see this and think..."Hmmm, I might need to call her or one of her kids for backup one day..." It's a terrible thought but it did cross my mind and made me wonder. And it made me wonder this because of this particular acquaintance of mine and her actions. My gosh, when I told her where my oldest daughter wants to live one day (the Midwest) and that my daughter and her husband had asked me to move there with them one day and I probably would, she said "But that's too cold, and I'll probably be moving with you! Please don't move there!" No. All the MORE reason to move there! LOL
Almost every time I say something about being alone or lonely or sad or whatever, she says, "But you always have your granddaughter with you." And it's true that my 19 year old granddaughter moved in with me after my husband died, to go to the local college - her parents still live overseas till next year so it worked out well for everyone. But we all know how 19 year olds are - first of all, she's often gone for several days or even weeks or even MONTHS at a time (like this summer, when she went to visit her family for most of the summer). She often spends the night with friends or they spend the night here. Most of what I do is separate from her, but I am really thankful for her being here even though she is going to break my heart when she leaves, and when she takes her dog with her - LOL.
But my point is that she always acts like she is MORE alone than me. And I guess she is, but that's not my fault or my responsibility. I have encouraged her to get involved with the community, with volunteer work, etc. or to go back to work part time, but nope. Alright then - I can't help her.
I saw some post of hers on social media. It was all I could do not to write something, but I didn't. I saw her response to some stupid question (that had like 3.5 thousand answers) like "How many of you would let your husband go through your phones?" She answered "I would." But here's what I know about her - first of all, I know she doesn't have a husband so there's that. But I also know that while her husband was bedridden and dying and absolutely unable to do anything for himself, not even lift his arms, she was actually texting some idiot guy in CANADA of all places, and they were having some sort of silly on-the-phone affair type thing and he was even asking her if she would send him some risque pictures and for all I know, SHE DID. Regardless, when she told me this, I was honestly sort of aghast. I said "But your husband was laying right there, dying." And she said, with this look of absolute "I'm a deer in the headlights" thing - "I was doing it right in front of him though - it wasn't like I was hiding it from him." THE MAN COULDN'T EVEN MOVE. I'm pretty sure she wasn't saying, "Oh, look, I got a message from So and So and he'd like me to send him some pictures of my boobs - I'll be right back, honey!"
Lord have mercy.
After that, I started really pulling away from her. I...Just...Can't...
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 11-01-2021 at 05:09 PM..
Well that’s truly awful! She definitely has major problems.
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OMG!! Who says something like that????? a little cruel, if you ask me. 