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just because YOU don't know about using 90 gr Vld match bullets and 26" barrels doesn't mean that such things aren't done on a regular basis. You know what plain based, softpoint 150 gr 308's have left at 1000 yds? Not a bit more than 300 ft lbs, I guarantee it. check out the long range ballistics tables, after researching ballistic coefficients of the 2 bullets. :-) Prepare to get a shock, oh ignorant one.
My ballistics program shows this:
.308 @ 1000 yds -- 582 ft*lbs of energy.
.223 @ 1000 yds -- 142 ft*lbs of energy. (even Federal Gold Match only has 180 ft*lbs of energy at 1000 yds)
This is using "real world" ammo in "real world" rifles--not expensive match ammo and $10,000 comp rifles. It's using FMJ just as in military applications. But you have to remember that there is match-grade ammo for the .308 just as there is for .223.
My .308 is a bolt-action carbine with 16.5 inch barrel. My .223 is a bolt-action precision target rifle with a 26 inch barrel. The ballistics program bases its computations initially on theoretical formulas, and afterwards allows for re-input of drop data based on the actual performance of the ammunition through the particular rifle to update performance numbers. The .223 is certainly capable of grouping tighter, no doubt. But claiming that it has better hitting power at 1000 yards is absurd. The .308 has well over three times the energy at that distance as you can see above. The same situation would apply if I shot match-grade ammo through both rifles.
.........YOu'd be way ahead to go argue golf with Tiger Woods. he knows less about golf than I know about guns and shooting.
And yet you seem to think you know the extent of everyone else's knowledge on this forum? This is a small pond but if you'd sit back and read a bit you'd find out there are already some mighty big fish with outstanding depths of knowledge which they readily share sans the 'tude.
the 223 ball rd goes right thru men, too, believe it.
I'm not saying that what the Army told us is correct or not. I too questioned why bother replacing the M-1 with an M-14 that they wound up replacing a few years later. Personally I was just glad to be rid of that heavy klunker because I couldn't hit diddly at 500 yards.
What I am saying is that the Army gave that, and standardization with NATO as the reasons.
please point out where I said it was inaccurate? i said the the typical ball military rd is. How many rds do you think this batch of folks stocks of $1+ each MATCH bthp's, lady? Non bench firing positions work more in favor of the 223 than the 308. I aint the one claiming that it is desirable to be firing at long range. I just point out that the 223 CAN be so used, quite effectively, while retaining the many advantages of the 223, AR, and .22lr conversion unit. the 308 forfeits all those nice things. YOu'd be way ahead to go argue golf with Tiger Woods. he knows less about golf than I know about guns and shooting.
Please tell us oh great one...
(Since you know so much)
WHY The Marine Snipers I've served with used... (Wait for it)...
The M40 variants in... Yes, 308!
And not in .223/5.56
AND back when the Corps got the idea that everyone Qual with the rifles they were issued... at the 500 with M4's... LONGtime Experts were barely Qualing.
Oh, and since youy are 'SO knowledgeable'... Care to tell us your 'real name'
I'm SURE it must be John Zelenak or some such!
All I know, is when I shot people with the 5.56... It took 5-7 rounds to put em down.
I'll take a .30, every time.
Wait....
Quote:
Originally Posted by giney12
I just point out that the 223 CAN be so used, quite effectively, while retaining the many advantages of the 223, AR, and .22lr conversion unit. the 308 forfeits all those nice things. .
Holy Cr@p, that sounds way too close to the mark...
Suppressors - Check
Gnawing of Femurs - Check
Stranger from reality - Check
Tactical Wheelbarrow - Not Check, Tactical Bicycle - Check!
Please tell us oh great one...
(Since you know so much)
WHY The Marine Snipers I've served with used... (Wait for it)...
The M40 variants in... Yes, 308!
And not in .223/5.56
AND back when the Corps got the idea that everyone Qual with the rifles they were issued... at the 500 with M4's... LONGtime Experts were barely Qualing.
Oh, and since youy are 'SO knowledgeable'... Care to tell us your 'real name'
I'm SURE it must be John Zelenak or some such!
All I know, is when I shot people with the 5.56... It took 5-7 rounds to put em down.
I live in the American West/Southwest, and I chose the FN FAL. I much prefer the .308/7.62 NATO round, and the FN FAL is an excellent battle rifle. Too it is, or can be made to be, quite accurate out to around 600 yards, so it would do double-duty as a hunting rifle.
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Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This is a small pond but if you'd sit back and read a bit you'd find out there are already some mighty big fish with outstanding depths of knowledge which they readily share sans the 'tude.
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