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I have been fondling my new SAI (Springfield Armory Inc.) M1A National Match since I acquired it new last fall. Didn't have the time to do much with it back then, since then (cruddola weather, cold and wind...), aside from setting up one load with AA2520 (The "Palma Powder", formulated specifically for the Match 7.62, with CCI 200s or Fed 210s, and 165gr A-Max Boolittz...). It flees my muzzle @ a clocked 2700 fps on the nose, with an ES of ≈ ±12 fps. Not bad! And v. accurate to boot! and not that hard on the brass either!
Well, it did shoot into <0.8", 5 shots, and then amazed me by a sub-4", 4 shot group at an 8.5 X 11" target I shot @ 398 yds! (Uhmmm... and the fifth round? Dunno!) All in a slight crosswind (≈ 7 - 10 mph), with the sun behind the target! The group was displaced to the right about 4" due to that cross-wind.
Quite fun, but the rifle IS quite heavy. It was sandbagged right then, but... I'm going to add a two-leg bipod (Not one of those rat-in-a-wheel, springs & levers and pulley type Harris thingees, but one that Sinclair sells that's quite slick-looking... Can't remember the name right now...). It will have to extend enough so I can sit behind it, like crossed wood stix at a blackpowder match! No prone for me; I could NEVER get back up!
Unfortunately, that will drive the overall weight up even MORE!!! So, with loaded 5 shot clip (not to mention what would happen if I added a fully charged up 20 rd clip!) to about 13+ lbs. No wonder they called them Grunts!
Unfortunately, I'm kinda seriously arthritically disabled! Arms, elbows, knees, foot arches, hands, wrists and so on. WTF! I do not want to have to boost my steroids waaayyy upppp just to go shooting!
I do wonder though, how our young, tough & strong boyz even carried these cannons in the 'Nam without getting arm or leg cramps! (I guess I answered my own question, didn't I?)
Of course, yes, those battle models probably weighed "only" 9 or 10 lbs, but by comparo, that Colt black mouse-gun, the one that got so many of our boys "kilt" early on by it's shoddy design features, weighed only ≈7 lb. even with a full 20+ rd clip! Even our Canuck FN-CALS weighed only about 9.5 lb with a 20 rounder on board!
Of course, when the opposition is firing back at'cha, you probably really don't notice an extra pound or two, huh? And the M14 was a very reliable firearm (long as you knew what to, and what not to.. grease, and when!), unlike that murderously poor M-16 design. Someone should have been sent to Alcatraz for that abomination! Even now, it's not got the best penetration or impact rep, and that anemic 5.56mm round in the M-4 carbine? It's only good if you are super-recoil sensitive, plus you can carry a lot of ammo.... ("plink...plink...plink...plink...")
So.... why not go RIGHT NOW with the much superior 6.8SPC? They know it works, in a slightly modded version of the existing platform! But with a solid-rod op system on board, it would be a no-brainer swap-out. Could all be done, military-wide global conversion, for less than the cost of one F35! And it HITS hard! Add in, say, a standard 18" bbl, and a simple version of a 1X (or at best 2X...) Trijicon ACOG type sight as standard sighting equipment, and it'd be... stand back Achmed The (now v. much more dead...) Terrorist!
Oh well. At least my 7.62 fed M1A will be a stable stand-off weapon, huh? You know: if (I'm sorry: when...) the socio-freakoid Cultural Revisionist Orks (CRO™s) or GEP™s (Ghetto Entitlement Parasites™) come at my family and/or friends out here in über-rural America, my Leupold 2-7X LED-reticled scoped M1A will easily be able to keep their misshapen (and politically mis-directed..) but fully enclothed heads down out at ≈800+ meters! Heck; I'll even go with 100+ meters!
(Think Metric!).
My techno-mods so far: TiAl-coated gas piston. Special Op Rod spring. Adjustable gas port. Two-stud front sling mount. Sling. Bassett "Low" Scope Mount with aforementioned Leupold VX-R scope with LED reticle. Re-clocked gas cylinder. Checked the SAI glass bedding for exact fit & alignment.
Plus those exact (v. close to the official & latest Hornady Reloading Manual Service Rifle recipe; 2 ≈ +0.2gr of powder to hit on exactly 2700 fps.)) 2700 fps handloads on modded mil-surp ammo: de-crimped primer pockets (via the excellent Dillion primer pocket re-swager) lightly annealed necks down about 7 - 10mm, trimmed to length and "just barely" full-length sized.
As a result, I expect to perhaps get only 3 - 4 reloads max, and then the brass gets crushed (to prevent anyone or myself from accidentally re-using them...).
Then, when this frickin' weather improves, it'll be out to my local desert sagebrush and dust/mud/snow/mud range. It is absolutely critical to shoot out at those actual extended ranges since bullets can both stabilize or de-stabilize the futha they goez!
Anyone else own or have had an M1A in any version? Stories? Accuracy? Issues?
I have been fondling my new SAI (Springfield Armory Inc.) M1A National Match since I acquired it new last fall. Didn't have the time to do much with it back then, since then (cruddola weather, cold and wind...), aside from setting up one load with AA2520 (The "Palma Powder", formulated specifically for the Match 7.62, with CCI 200s or Fed 210s, and 165gr A-Max Boolittz...). It flees my muzzle @ a clocked 2700 fps on the nose, with an ES of ≈ ±12 fps. Not bad! And v. accurate to boot! and not that hard on the brass either!
Well, it did shoot into <0.8", 5 shots, and then amazed me by a sub-4", 4 shot group at an 8.5 X 11" target I shot @ 398 yds! (Uhmmm... and the fifth round? Dunno!) All in a slight crosswind (≈ 7 - 10 mph), with the sun behind the target! The group was displaced to the right about 4" due to that cross-wind.
Quite fun, but the rifle IS quite heavy. It was sandbagged right then, but... I'm going to add a two-leg bipod (Not one of those rat-in-a-wheel, springs & levers and pulley type Harris thingees, but one that Sinclair sells that's quite slick-looking... Can't remember the name right now...). It will have to extend enough so I can sit behind it, like crossed wood stix at a blackpowder match! No prone for me; I could NEVER get back up!
Unfortunately, that will drive the overall weight up even MORE!!! So, with loaded 5 shot clip (not to mention what would happen if I added a fully charged up 20 rd clip!) to about 13+ lbs. No wonder they called them Grunts!
Unfortunately, I'm kinda seriously arthritically disabled! Arms, elbows, knees, foot arches, hands, wrists and so on. WTF! I do not want to have to boost my steroids waaayyy upppp just to go shooting!
I do wonder though, how our young, tough & strong boyz even carried these cannons in the 'Nam without getting arm or leg cramps! (I guess I answered my own question, didn't I?)
Of course, yes, those battle models probably weighed "only" 9 or 10 lbs, but by comparo, that Colt black mouse-gun, the one that got so many of our boys "kilt" early on by it's shoddy design features, weighed only ≈7 lb. even with a full 20+ rd clip! Even our Canuck FN-CALS weighed only about 9.5 lb with a 20 rounder on board!
Of course, when the opposition is firing back at'cha, you probably really don't notice an extra pound or two, huh? And the M14 was a very reliable firearm (long as you knew what to, and what not to.. grease, and when!), unlike that murderously poor M-16 design. Someone should have been sent to Alcatraz for that abomination! Even now, it's not got the best penetration or impact rep, and that anemic 5.56mm round in the M-4 carbine? It's only good if you are super-recoil sensitive, plus you can carry a lot of ammo.... ("plink...plink...plink...plink...")
So.... why not go RIGHT NOW with the much superior 6.8SPC? They know it works, in a slightly modded version of the existing platform! But with a solid-rod op system on board, it would be a no-brainer swap-out. Could all be done, military-wide global conversion, for less than the cost of one F35! And it HITS hard! Add in, say, a standard 18" bbl, and a simple version of a 1X (or at best 2X...) Trijicon ACOG type sight as standard sighting equipment, and it'd be... stand back Achmed The (now v. much more dead...) Terrorist!
Oh well. At least my 7.62 fed M1A will be a stable stand-off weapon, huh? You know: if (I'm sorry: when...) the socio-freakoid Cultural Revisionist Orks (CROâ„¢s) or GEPâ„¢s (Ghetto Entitlement Parasitesâ„¢) come at my family and/or friends out here in über-rural America, my Leupold 2-7X LED-reticled scoped M1A will easily be able to keep their misshapen (and politically mis-directed..) but fully enclothed heads down out at ≈800+ meters! Heck; I'll even go with 100+ meters!
(Think Metric!).
My techno-mods so far: TiAl-coated gas piston. Special Op Rod spring. Adjustable gas port. Two-stud front sling mount. Sling. Bassett "Low" Scope Mount with aforementioned Leupold VX-R scope with LED reticle. Re-clocked gas cylinder. Checked the SAI glass bedding for exact fit & alignment.
Plus those exact (v. close to the official & latest Hornady Reloading Manual Service Rifle recipe; 2 ≈ +0.2gr of powder to hit on exactly 2700 fps.)) 2700 fps handloads on modded mil-surp ammo: de-crimped primer pockets (via the excellent Dillion primer pocket re-swager) lightly annealed necks down about 7 - 10mm, trimmed to length and "just barely" full-length sized.
As a result, I expect to perhaps get only 3 - 4 reloads max, and then the brass gets crushed (to prevent anyone or myself from accidentally re-using them...).
Then, when this frickin' weather improves, it'll be out to my local desert sagebrush and dust/mud/snow/mud range. It is absolutely critical to shoot out at those actual extended ranges since bullets can both stabilize or de-stabilize the futha they goez!
Anyone else own or have had an M1A in any version? Stories? Accuracy? Issues?
I have a M1A NM with the walnut stock. The only thing I can find fault is pulling that trigger group out for the FIRST fieldstrip. It came out very-very hard and you don't want to do it anymore than what is needed. It has to be done from time to time though, or the rifle is butt dirty. That's not sitting there doing it for fun ten times a day. Accuracy is always 1 MOA at 100 yards and this rifle reaches out to grab ya. I love them along with the AR platform in AR-10 .308 Win (7.62X 51mm). If I need a semi .308 Win, I'm using one or the other. I also own an Armalite AR-10 A2. I keep my four AR-15s around for standard duty. I had an FN FAL and ditched it for the M1A/M-14. That was the best choice I made. I didn't care for it at all. Here is mine with a RATED R part of the pic removed so we don't scare the women and kids!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman
I have been fondling my new SAI (Springfield Armory Inc.) M1A National Match since I acquired it new last fall. Didn't have the time to do much with it back then, since then (cruddola weather, cold and wind...), aside from setting up one load with AA2520 (The "Palma Powder", formulated specifically for the Match 7.62, with CCI 200s or Fed 210s, and 165gr A-Max Boolittz...). It flees my muzzle @ a clocked 2700 fps on the nose, with an ES of ≈ ±12 fps. Not bad! And v. accurate to boot! and not that hard on the brass either!
Well, it did shoot into <0.8", 5 shots, and then amazed me by a sub-4", 4 shot group at an 8.5 X 11" target I shot @ 398 yds! (Uhmmm... and the fifth round? Dunno!) All in a slight crosswind (≈ 7 - 10 mph), with the sun behind the target! The group was displaced to the right about 4" due to that cross-wind.
Quite fun, but the rifle IS quite heavy. It was sandbagged right then, but... I'm going to add a two-leg bipod (Not one of those rat-in-a-wheel, springs & levers and pulley type Harris thingees, but one that Sinclair sells that's quite slick-looking... Can't remember the name right now...). It will have to extend enough so I can sit behind it, like crossed wood stix at a blackpowder match! No prone for me; I could NEVER get back up!
Unfortunately, that will drive the overall weight up even MORE!!! So, with loaded 5 shot clip (not to mention what would happen if I added a fully charged up 20 rd clip!) to about 13+ lbs. No wonder they called them Grunts!
Unfortunately, I'm kinda seriously arthritically disabled! Arms, elbows, knees, foot arches, hands, wrists and so on. WTF! I do not want to have to boost my steroids waaayyy upppp just to go shooting!
I do wonder though, how our young, tough & strong boyz even carried these cannons in the 'Nam without getting arm or leg cramps! (I guess I answered my own question, didn't I?)
Of course, yes, those battle models probably weighed "only" 9 or 10 lbs, but by comparo, that Colt black mouse-gun, the one that got so many of our boys "kilt" early on by it's shoddy design features, weighed only ≈7 lb. even with a full 20+ rd clip! Even our Canuck FN-CALS weighed only about 9.5 lb with a 20 rounder on board!
Of course, when the opposition is firing back at'cha, you probably really don't notice an extra pound or two, huh? And the M14 was a very reliable firearm (long as you knew what to, and what not to.. grease, and when!), unlike that murderously poor M-16 design. Someone should have been sent to Alcatraz for that abomination! Even now, it's not got the best penetration or impact rep, and that anemic 5.56mm round in the M-4 carbine? It's only good if you are super-recoil sensitive, plus you can carry a lot of ammo.... ("plink...plink...plink...plink...")
So.... why not go RIGHT NOW with the much superior 6.8SPC? They know it works, in a slightly modded version of the existing platform! But with a solid-rod op system on board, it would be a no-brainer swap-out. Could all be done, military-wide global conversion, for less than the cost of one F35! And it HITS hard! Add in, say, a standard 18" bbl, and a simple version of a 1X (or at best 2X...) Trijicon ACOG type sight as standard sighting equipment, and it'd be... stand back Achmed The (now v. much more dead...) Terrorist!
Oh well. At least my 7.62 fed M1A will be a stable stand-off weapon, huh? You know: if (I'm sorry: when...) the socio-freakoid Cultural Revisionist Orks (CRO™s) or GEP™s (Ghetto Entitlement Parasites™) come at my family and/or friends out here in über-rural America, my Leupold 2-7X LED-reticled scoped M1A will easily be able to keep their misshapen (and politically mis-directed..) but fully enclothed heads down out at ≈800+ meters! Heck; I'll even go with 100+ meters!
(Think Metric!).
My techno-mods so far: TiAl-coated gas piston. Special Op Rod spring. Adjustable gas port. Two-stud front sling mount. Sling. Bassett "Low" Scope Mount with aforementioned Leupold VX-R scope with LED reticle. Re-clocked gas cylinder. Checked the SAI glass bedding for exact fit & alignment.
Plus those exact (v. close to the official & latest Hornady Reloading Manual Service Rifle recipe; 2 ≈ +0.2gr of powder to hit on exactly 2700 fps.)) 2700 fps handloads on modded mil-surp ammo: de-crimped primer pockets (via the excellent Dillion primer pocket re-swager) lightly annealed necks down about 7 - 10mm, trimmed to length and "just barely" full-length sized.
As a result, I expect to perhaps get only 3 - 4 reloads max, and then the brass gets crushed (to prevent anyone or myself from accidentally re-using them...).
Then, when this frickin' weather improves, it'll be out to my local desert sagebrush and dust/mud/snow/mud range. It is absolutely critical to shoot out at those actual extended ranges since bullets can both stabilize or de-stabilize the futha they goez!
Anyone else own or have had an M1A in any version? Stories? Accuracy? Issues?
Question for you, Rifleman...
If, for example, I were to purchase a Fulton Armory M1A would I be subject to snobbery such as those who shoot Uberti "Model P" .45s? More importantly, is such snobbery based in actual funtional superiority or is it just because the Springfield/USFA crowd paid a lot more?
I also want to tell you guys that I found the perfect stuff for the stock. We've all heard the stories of some old timer making his own concoction at Camp Perry over a radiator and such. Screw that mess and headache. You can buy this stuff at Home Depot anyday of the week and it's PERFECT! Howard Feed-N-Wax Wood Preserver Bees Wax Polish 16oz on eBay!
If, for example, I were to purchase a Fulton Armory M1A would I be subject to snobbery such as those who shoot Uberti "Model P" .45s? More importantly, is such snobbery based in actual funtional superiority or is it just because the Springfield/USFA crowd paid a lot more?
Those are supposed to be good from what I've heard.
You asked about the M14 in service in Viet Nam, I never saw one. We were issued the troublesome M16 (1967) and it came into service in 1963. Once they figured out the ammo was crapola, it started being a reliable weapon but with limited range and knockdown power. It really came around with the 3 shot burst function. Far too many idiots panicked in combat and would empty their rifles only to be overran or empty their ammo pouches with the same results.The lucky guys were packing the weak hearted but easier to use in jungle warfare, 30 Carbine. The M14 would have been clumsy at best when yer swinging a rifle thru jungle that you can't see more than 3 feet in front of you. The extremely lucky guys managed to pick up the Thompson. I saw a few of those and that was thought to be as good as it gets for the environment. Even with arms and legs tied for blood control, the VC couldn't take many hits from a Thompson before he found his drug induced backside flat on the ground.
I have a few M1As but no Springfield brand...or at least the current Springfield company. Mine are all military parts except the receiver and are chambered in 7.62, not 308. The load you have worked up won't work in mine as the powder is far too slow and op rod damage will occur. BL-C2 or IMR4895 only in mine.
If, for example, I were to purchase a Fulton Armory M1A would I be subject to snobbery such as those who shoot Uberti "Model P" .45s? More importantly, is such snobbery based in actual functional superiority or is it just because the Springfield/USFA crowd paid a lot more?
Actually, the Fulton Armory version is known to be a good one, while by comparison, there have been a number of complaints about recently built SAIs (Springfield Armory Inc) on the "Springer's" (as we M1A/M!4 afficionados say... )build quality and other accuracy issues.
They are known, however, to really stand behind their product. After I'd ordered mine, I then read all sorts of troubling info on this forum, which I highly recommend:
m14forum.com
It had me worrying, but then when I got it and fired it for accuracy, mine has performed very well indeed. And, as a long-range "standoff rifle", it will also work very well, since I'd soon run out of ammo for my rather specialized custom-built (by me...) accurized and fine-tuned Rem 700 thumbhole in 6.5-06 Ackley Imp (140gr @ 3200 fps, nominal) which is a sub-0.5 MoA rifle all day long!
As for disassembling a NatMatch version like mine, I have read all the strong warnings about not taking it apart too much, but if you are careful & slow and know what you are up to, there is no real lasting damage to the bedding, and you can always "reskin" the epoxy after perhaps a hundred or so removals. I'm just too much of a tinkerer to leave it all alone in there!
I have also acquired a well-used standard issue stock and am setting up a modified CNC program to route out and drill and shave off the wood that has to git out thuh way for a proper neat and functional bedding procedure. That will be worth it's weight in code gold!
As for the Fulton, go for it! Not so sure about anything "Uberti".. As in: so far I have been totally unable to contact anyone from the so-called Uberti company regarding another rifle I have in my shop! (A cute little brand-new customer's Uberti Baby 1871 Rolling Block in 22LR that came with a broken mainspring!)
PS: There's no snobbery about or against Fulton Armory from anyone I know!
BTW, too bad we can't get the old Italian Beretta BM59 version! It as a modified M1 Garand, shortened and fitted with the clip. But nice wood, and with an actual rubber recoil pad!
I also want to tell you guys that I found the perfect stuff for the stock. We've all heard the stories of some old timer making his own concoction at Camp Perry over a radiator and such. Screw that mess and headache. You can buy this stuff at Home Depot anyday of the week and it's PERFECT! Howard Feed-N-Wax Wood Preserver Bees Wax Polish 16oz on eBay!
I've heard that, yes! Good stuff!
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). It flees my muzzle @ a clocked 2700 fps on the nose, with an ES of ≈ ±12 fps. Not bad! And v. accurate to boot! and not that hard on the brass either!
Accuracy is always 1 MOA at 100 yards and this rifle reaches out to grab ya. I love them along with the AR platform in AR-10 .308 Win (7.62X 51mm). If I need a semi .308 Win, I'm using one or the other. I also own an Armalite AR-10 A2. I keep my four AR-15s around for standard duty. I had an FN FAL and ditched it for the M1A/M-14. That was the best choice I made. I didn't care for it at all. Here is mine with a RATED R part of the pic removed so we don't scare the women and kids!
