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As for stevo's cogent comment about a developed sense of community involvement, I post this timely photo of some Israeli girls returning from their Saturday target practice.
Can you imagine this scene in a Starbuck's in Seattle?
Oh horrors! A massacre about to happen? Not. (PS: it's called community trust, just like you have complete faith in for your elected officials! Like Barama et al!)
Last edited by ElkHunter; 12-19-2012 at 12:09 PM..
Reason: Removed text
(note: this story walks a thin line between the mechanics of guns and the laws that control them. Move if necessary)
There's nothing horrible about "Gun Laws" that make sense.
It's sad that teachers have to be armed now, but what other choices do we have?
With #1 - Had any of the teachers or any of the school officials, in Columbine, Colorado, Virginia Tech, or Newtown, Connecticut been armed, the number of casualties could have been much less, or maybe the shooters would have been stopped before they carried out those horrible massacres, and oh, I back this law to arm teachers, and if a teacher chooses to be armed, they have to go through a rigorous firearms training class, the same kind that are used to get a CCW.
Most, if not all of those massacres were done by mentally disturbed individuals, maybe it's time to look at the root of the problem, instead of wasting time and effort thinking of more useless gun laws.
The only laws proven to have had any impact on the number of deaths in these kind of cases have been concealed-carry laws.
Every year, there are numerous cases where persons with concealed-carry permits, and carrying firearms, who have prevented criminals from committing various types of crimes, or have used their weapons in bringing down criminals, either in self-defense or various types of situations, against individuals, who were about to commit violent crimes. You won't hear about those because the biased media only likes to report incidents that involve criminals using weapons for the wrong reasons and end up injuring or killing others.
1) Hard to say, this one I'm on the fence about....more because of how crowded it is but, then again, I think back to the time when what's his name opened up at Virginia Tech and wiped out 31.....4 more than this nightmare in Connecticut.....the liberals screaming for this to go away are the same ones that were combat ineffective when wang chung opened up......again, on the fence on this one...there's an increased element of danger on campus when the bath salts, booze, and coke starts flying on frat parties on Friday nights.....
2) Agreed. However, if you ALREADY have a permit it's a non-issue. I can go into any store, plop down my concealed permit and it says; "hey, this guy is okay (probably)" and off I go with my latest purchases. Kind of like the FF status on Delta.....no waiting, board at your leisure....and yet, I have yet to shoot anyone...even when I'm pissed off....see, I can control myself.....for those that DONT have permit well, I'm fine with the Government checking them out....I don't want any 21 year olds with a grudge buying in the heat of anger either.....
3) You are wrong here. Stand your ground sent a clear and distinct message to criminals. We no longer have to take extrordinary measures to avoid a criminal. After all HE's the one doing the crime, not me? Your reference to it makes it harder to prosecute is laughable. People have been claiming self-defense LONG before this law was inacted. You are neither less or more inclined to be prosecuted with or without this law. You are slanting the truth. Keep it honest. Your statement is way off base. Anyone that has been in a shooting will tell you , it's ANYTHING but easy to prove your innocence. All the more reason I ENCOURAGE legal and moral training with any CCW license. You make it sound like this law is as effective as screaming the race card at any incident....far from it.....just ask Zimmerman...I'll bet he wishes he would have done ANYTHING other than shoot that kid. And yes, he was standing on the Castle Doctrine.
4) Non-issue. If you were NOT a criminal in your state, why would you suddenly be a crook in another? You can travel between borders freely. Frankly, I wish someone would have been in Connecticut visiting a relative carrying a CCW when this nightmare started. Probably wouldn't have done much but, it sure would have kept a lid on things if it had gone any futher??? If not them, who? You?
5) Excellent law. NO pre-emption should be allowed. Just ask any victim of violence in DC....I'll bet you they would agree with me.....if it's legal, it's legal. And talking about agendas, who's agenda is being served by enacting pre-emption laws? Hmmmmmmmmmmm? It's one more way of proving that criminals don't have all the say in the streets and we are willing to shoot any one of them that disagrees...again, if not us, who? You?
6) I agree with you here except your sarcasm erases your intent. Name one law that could have prevented what happened last week. One. You can't. Why? Because the kid was determined to do a terrible, horrific crime. Any regulation would not have prevented it. Sorry. Trying to get all the guns rounded up is like trying to get all the illegals out of the country. I wish you luck with that. Besides, as the one now famous reply says, "yeah, let's make Cocaine and Drug use illegal, that ought to stop the drug trade...right?" It worked sooooooo well for drugs, I"m sure it will work equally "well" for guns....wanna know what you get when you limit the magazine capacity on a crook? A quick reload....think about it.....this country is about to spend millions putting a feel good blanket on regulating firearms. In the end, all you will get is a whacko who now has to carry 6 magazines instead of two....you MIGHT slow him down for 2-3 seconds per reload....congratulations....try again....
Wanna stop the insanity? Treat the trigger! Where's the trigger? In the guys HEAD!!!! THAT's where our problem lies....think only a rifle can do that much damage? Remember the Long Island Railroad Shooter, Collin Ferguson? He did his killing with a pistol.....try again......
The list goes on. Perhaps neighborhood watch volunteers at schools, private security , etc... can eliminate some baaaad entries but, do not think for one second resticting the magazine will do anything...It's foolish and I am honestly sorry that it is. But, it is what it is.....don't believe me? Go to YouTube and look up; Ruger 10/22 high-capacity magazine shooting....peruse the videos...note the young kids who have illegally modified their .22 caliber rifles to go full auto.....think those .22's can't kill as quickly? Think again.
I'm not happy about it but, the country is about to chase a red herring. The problem is in some folks heads...TREAT THAT...spend the millions on THAT....THEN we all might see some abatement in these horrific, senseless killings of the innocent....just take a realistic approach
Regulating Gun Shows is a different matter and I believe that all guns should be tracked to prevent the Eric Holder type fiasco's along the Mexican border. Straw purchases. People are being approached after leaving gun shows in Laredo and El Paso by clean cut, Hispanics looking to buy their recent purchases at a slgiht profit. Some of those buyers are tempted and shazaaam, Mexico now has more semi-auto soon to be full auto guns to use in their streets. Yes, regulate gun shows.
7) They tried that during Katrina. What happened? Innocent people began being robbed and their property looted. Why? Because the bad guys WATCHED the police take their firearms away. They had to sue to get them BACK after the Katrina nightmare. When their is an emergency is PRECISELY when you need these "tools" to defend yourself, family, neighbors, elderly, sick, infirmed, injured, and property...it's a good law. We were legal before the emergency, I'm sure we will be legal throughout...and as well all now know, the police were able to thwart every crime in Katrina....right? THere weren't enough of them to go around and the crooks knew it...just look at youtube and the looting...er...early "shoppers" gettin theirs....wake up...
8) Wrong again....take assault rifles away and kids will just use 25 round mags in their 10/22's....you are just rearranging the furniture on the Titanic....nothing more...go ahead, take them away.....then answer to all the crimes that continue with semi-auto pistols, rifles and even shotguns.....rearranging the furniture....rearranging the furniture....we tried this once under Clinton....IT FAILED......it might make you feel good...right up to the next shooting....remember columbine??? he used a hi-point carbine....wanna know the capacity of that mediocre weapon??? 10 rounds per magazine....I guess eliminating hi-capacity magazines didn't work there....either......did it?
9) I'm fine with it. Just AGGRESSIVELY use the laws already on the books. Why is it whenever these things happen it's usually NOT legal gun owners that cause the problems? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.....last time I checked, a 20 year old can't legally own anything....having access to his mother's weapsons was NOT a good idea and MOST gun owners are very careful not to allow that to happen but, as we saw at Columbine and Virginia Tech and other places, it didn't stop them. Kleebold (sp?) had a hi-point carbine, sawed off double barrel shotgun, pump shotgun and a Tec-9.....with or without the Tec 9 they had PEEELENTY of firepower to do what they did.....
Wanna fix this? Attack the mental triggers of some in society who WILL find a way to hurt innocent people with whatever they have to in order to satisfy some primordal and evil thoughts swimming around their heads. I'll bet when this is over, we are going to find out about a kid that was bullied his whole life, marginalized by his parents and/or classmates, rejected socially at most turns, constantly humiliated by strangers and even friends alike and finally felt that the only way to express his frustration was to vent on the innocent to get the attention he thought he deserved. He saw them as happy and innocent as perhaps he remembered himself to be when he was young. Add 15 years of emotional turmoil and voila, here we are. Maybe I"m wrong but, I'm willing to bet I'm 75 percent right.
This was tragic beyond measure, no family or child should have ever ended their lives this way. But, chasing the gun issue is like treating the symptoms, not the cause. Let's spend the resources counseling and identifying kids like this. Kleebold, Virginia Tech all had issues where the human was marginalized by society. Sooner or later, do that to enough and you WILL produce a monster or two. It's only a matter of time and all the gun legislation in the world will not stop or prevent it. They are too far gone at that point and we as a society missed the clues along the way.
One last thing and then I will finally shut up. Realize that fully 99.5 percent or so of the population do NOT want to hurt anyone. This transcends races, sexual orientations, ages, etc. That said, that leaves us with maybe a half a million that perhaps are not in line with how shall I say, the Judao Christian Laws about thall shall not kill. Out of those it's quite possible to contain 95% of them or prevent them from "doin' what they do" to the rest of us? That's still quite a few humanoids running around causing general malfeasance and turmoil.
Remember, 1 SOB can do A LOT of damage as evidenced last week. If you google today's headlines of shootings around the US this past week it will amaze you. You probably don't have the time or spirit to endure that much sadness. Try to take heart in knowing that most gun owners, like most drivers, do not go about their lives irresponsibly putting others at risk. Most of us were raised in the beliefs of doing good is better than doing bad. I can't make it more basic than that. Regardless, we have that other 1/10th of 1 percent or so to worry about.
I have NO problems with regulating Gun Shows as I have stated. Frankly, I do not believe firearms shouldn't be tracked, they should. It's all about accountability. Most of us use them for sport, defense, or collections. Nothing more. I'm happy to report that this is USALLY the case, NOT the exception. The stats don't lie. In fact, considering just how many firearms there ARE in society it's a MIRACLE that there is not out and out gun fights at the Applebee's Corral on Friday nights at happy hour.
Any why is that the case? Simple. Most of us ARE good people. It's the bad ones that tend to ruin it for the whole bunch. Limiting how many rounds, what type of weapon, etc...etc. will do NOTHING to address the underlying issue. Bad people do exist and on occassion, they will kill anyone to prove it. Can't explain why some mental clocks work and some don't. I'll leave that to the highly trained medical professionals, pharmaceutical reps, and judges and lawyers to sort out. But, they do exist. Spending all of our resources on gun control is simply avoiding the off ramp to progress.
We will miss the turn. And if we continue to miss this turn, more people will die. Horrifically and in manners we can't fully comprehend. Gun Control, Knife Control, Flea Spray Control will do NOTHING to stop that. There are simply too many other weapons of opportunity at hand to stop it. Baseball bats, kitchen utensils, shop tools, tire irons, Bar-B-Q tool sets and even my wifes damn curling iron are available, seldom locked up and ready for any emotional outburst little Timmy feels warrants a murderous rampage.
Work on that, fix that, counsel that, spend the cash on that and MAYBE we will see some relief. I don't think EITHER side aruges that there are some sick people out there. You can be a gun advocate or not but, no one would argue this point, would they? And if we truly recognize that there are people out there that have dogs talking to them, alien beings invading their minds and say it with conviction, we should probably pay some attention to THAT for awhile. If you don't believe me, look at the suicide bombers in the Middle East. Hard to argue with someone with conviction, isn't it....besides, there are a lot of unemployed mental health counselors and before THEY start offing off one another, we need to get them back to work.....too......not just GM...
So, what have we learned? Bad people do exist. They exist for a myriad of reasons no one really knows. And that they will exist long after what's-his-name in the White House gets any gun laws enacted. It may indeed save a life or two but, in the end, we will have missed that proverbial turn in the road of life and human progress that could have save so many more.
If you really care about the human condition, do your part. Make sure your kids aren't the ones that bully others. Make sure you aren't the one that makes fun of those that have mental or physical ailments. 2 of my children fall into this category and one was tested for Aspergers. It came up negative but, I can tell you first hand after watching the abuse he took from schoolmates for the better part of 10 years, he is NOT better off for the wear. Anyone out there that has a kid like mine knows precisely what I am talking about. Fortunately for him, he had parents who continue to show love and hope for his future. Not all kids are that lucky and even if they are, there is NO guarantee that their anger and frustration won't manifest itself in some awful way.
Tomorrow is promised to no one. Best to live in the present and be very careful whom you offend. While I may have grown up in a time and era where guns were literally everywhere, we never, ever thought to raise one in anger. It just wasn't in our DNA to do so. However, as you can see, I can't speak for everyone else.
Gun Control is not the real issue. Mental health, awareness and treatment, however, are.
True.
If guns were the root problem, we would have had school massacres every year since 1776.
How insightful and true. Thanks, northbound. Now, send this message to Barama.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet
One last thing and then I will finally shut up. Realize that fully 99.5 percent or so of the population do NOT want to hurt anyone. This transcends races, sexual orientations, ages, etc. That said, that leaves us with maybe a half a million that perhaps are not in line with how shall I say, the Judao Christian Laws about thall shall not kill. Out of those it's quite possible to contain 95% of them or prevent them from "doin' what they do" to the rest of us? That's still quite a few humanoids running around causing general malfeasance and turmoil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rflmn
Then, edited for brevity but a truly monumental and insightfully accurate and post. This one really needs to go to the Barama Boy as well.
Tomorrow is promised to no one. Best to live in the present and be very careful whom you offend. While I may have grown up in a time and era where guns were literally everywhere, we never, ever thought to raise one in anger. It just wasn't in our DNA to do so. However, as you can see, I can't speak for everyone else.
Gun Control is not the real issue. Mental health, awareness and treatment, however, are.
Thanks so much, guys! Sorry I could not rep you both X 10!
We should certainly not be outlawing law abiding citizens. What we should be doing is outlawing *ssshats like this that should not own a gun. We should be vigilant in turning these morons in, as they deserve to be. From my town just today there is an article in the Helena IR about a guy named William Albert Province that was arrested and charged with felony intimidation, subjecting four boys to simulated drowning (waterboarding) and felony family member assault. I don't think I can post a link the article, but some of the excerpts are:
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Jefferson County authorities earlier this week recovered three rifles and some ammunition they believe belong to a man arrested Tuesday following reports that he made threats related to an area school. William Albert Province, 42, is charged will felony intimidation, subjecting four boys to simulated drowning, also called waterboarding, and felony partner or family member assault.
After children were removed from Province’s Wickes Road home following the report of the waterboarding, a witness told authorities Province had indicated that “when he gets back on Wednesday, he is going to the school, the CPS office and the foster parent’s house and he will take care of everything and everyone,”according to an affidavit filed Monday in Jefferson County Justice Court said.
The witness told authorities Province had military-style body armor, multiple assault rifles and armor piercing ammunition.
The affidavit said deputies located the armor. The affidavit claims Province would straddle a boy with his hands over the child’s face and mouth and then would dump water on the face to simulate drowning.
Authorities believe he broke the fingers and wrist of a woman who intervened Dec. 5.
In addition to the intimidation and partner assault felonies, he’s charged with three charges of assault on a minor (felonies, not misdemeanors as previously reported), and an additional charge of misdemeanor assault.
D*uchebag award for the year for Helena Montana goes to.. Mr. Province.. Please come forward to accept your award of several years in the pen.
I think he needs to be treated for mental problems under the close supervision of Nurse Cratchet.
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