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I am trying to factor that I wasn't there and don't know all the details. Still, I cannot imagine how this hunter could have possibly thought the dog was a wolf, and continued firing even after the dog's owner told him to stop. He was even firing in the direction of the owner.
This does not sound like a responsible gun owner and hunter at all. I am new to hunting, but I am not new to fire arms. If you are not a stickler for safety, common sense, and judgment, you do not need to be picking up a real weapon. Maybe Xbox would be a better fit. This hunter was responsible for knowing his target, as well as what was around it. Again, I wasn't there and have not seen pictures of the terrain and vegetation, but the story says the owner could see the dog when it was hit, suggesting it was not too heavily wooded.
This is important because hunters like this guy are who the anti-gunners think of when they demand strict gun control laws. They define all gun owners by guys like this guy. Forget the millions of us who do not do stupid things with our guns. This guy defines all gun owners and hunters.
I am interested to hear your thoughts. Maybe someone familiar with the area of this incident can weigh in on the terrain and vegetation. Maybe that will mitigate the shooter's side of the story, though I don't think he can justify the shot. If you are going to shoot, you'd better be sure of your target and any and all activity around it.
Old story, was in the local papers over a month ago.
The owner was way back in the timber on a trail with his 3 dogs, Dogs were off leash and running through fairly heavy timber, Ponderosa pine with a lot of deadfall.
Hunter sees a dog that looks just like a wolf at about 50 yards. Has wolf tag, kills dog.
Owner comes running up and hunter goes to him and offers to pay for the dog. Owner screams at him to leave, so hunter leaves.
Owner tries to get sheriff or game warden to arrest hunter. Both investigate, both conclude hunter did no wrong. End of story except for the emotionalism.
In this state, during hunting season, if you have a palomino or buckskin horse and you go out in the woods, you put orange on it.
If you are running a dog that looks like a wolf, common sense would say put an orange vest on it, unless of course you want the dog to get shot so you can fabricate an incident.
Dog dead, Hunter didn't do anything wrong, Owner got his time in the papers.
Old story, was in the local papers over a month ago.
The owner was way back in the timber on a trail with his 3 dogs, Dogs were off leash and running through fairly heavy timber, Ponderosa pine with a lot of deadfall.
Hunter sees a dog that looks just like a wolf at about 50 yards. Has wolf tag, kills dog.
Owner comes running up and hunter goes to him and offers to pay for the dog. Owner screams at him to leave, so hunter leaves.
Owner tries to get sheriff or game warden to arrest hunter. Both investigate, both conclude hunter did no wrong. End of story except for the emotionalism.
In this state, during hunting season, if you have a palomino or buckskin horse and you go out in the woods, you put orange on it.
If you are running a dog that looks like a wolf, common sense would say put an orange vest on it, unless of course you want the dog to get shot so you can fabricate an incident.
Dog dead, Hunter didn't do anything wrong, Owner got his time in the papers.
Case closed.
Thank you. The USA Today story and Fox News story gave very few details. This helps.
Thank you. The USA Today story and Fox News story gave very few details. This helps.
If you read the article, the dog's owner screamed at the hunter to stop shooting after the first shot wounded the dog in the leg. The hunter ignored the screams and shot four more times, killing the dog.
I am against any hunting that does not provide food for the hunter. Killing for the sheer joy of seeing something die is sick, IMO.
Having lived in a rural area with 1000s of acres of woodland and logging trails, there were only a few months out of the year that it was safe to hike through them. It seemed as though it was always some type of hunting season, and some yahoo hiding in a tree with a gun and a six pack of beer made it unsafe for myself or my dogs to enjoy the outdoors.
My sympathies go to the dog owner - seeing his beloved pet shot for someone else's "fun" must have been horrific. The hunter should have his license revoked at the very least.
I shot a dog on my own property once that was attacking my cat on my 80 acres. I was forced to take a plea on a misdemeanor losing my CCW for a few years. That was several years ago and all is back on track with my CCW. It was as reckless discharge of a firearm. And before some go off on how I should have fought it, I paid over a grand for a lawyer intending to do so, we went up to picking the jury and the PA came to my attorney and said I had filed a lien in court against the dog owner because she quit paying me for plowing the shared drive we had together and that was intimidation of a witness. My Lawyer said we could beat it in court but did I want to pay another few grand to defend myself from a stupid charge, just take the hit and in a few years its as if it never happened. In the state where I lived, if her dog was attacking any thing considered a farm animal I have every right to shoot it, but if its attacking anything else even a kid, I guess you are SOL if you have a liberal PA.
I shot a dog on my own property once that was attacking my cat on my 80 acres. I was forced to take a plea on a misdemeanor losing my CCW for a few years. That was several years ago and all is back on track with my CCW. It was as reckless discharge of a firearm. And before some go off on how I should have fought it, I paid over a grand for a lawyer intending to do so, we went up to picking the jury and the PA came to my attorney and said I had filed a lien in court against the dog owner because she quit paying me for plowing the shared drive we had together and that was intimidation of a witness. My Lawyer said we could beat it in court but did I want to pay another few grand to defend myself from a stupid charge, just take the hit and in a few years its as if it never happened. In the state where I lived, if her dog was attacking any thing considered a farm animal I have every right to shoot it, but if its attacking anything else even a kid, I guess you are SOL if you have a liberal PA.
If a dog were attacking my cat, I would have shot it as well.
We had a neighbor with two dogs that were essentially going insane being stuck in the backyard 24/7. One day, they busted through the fence and attacked our cat who was lounging on our patio. She, our cat, jumped into the pool to escape them, but was still torn up pretty good. We told the neighbor to fix the fence and to put in a shock fence or something to keep this from happening again. About 3 months later, the cat was finally well enough to go back to the yard (she loved laying in the sun by the pool in the afternoons). Sure enough, they broke through again and this time killed her. They tore her to shreds. It took a ton of self control to keep from grabbing the dogs and drowning them in our pool. I seriously considered it. But when it came down to it, it wasn't the dogs' fault and doing so wouldn't bring back our cat. I then wanted to beat the crap out of the neighbor, but knew that me going to jail wouldn't accomplish anything either.
Actually, that was probably how our cat wanted to go out. She was a feisty little thing that was ultra-protective of her yard and her dog (our doberman). One day I was out front with the dog and cat doing some yard work. Our dog wasn't allowed to leave the front yard, but every now and then when the kids were playing on the street or in a close by yard, she'd sneak over to get petted. Anyway, we look up and see that she was sneaking down the street where some other dog we didn't recognize was standing. She was very social and loved playing with other dogs. We yell at her to get back in the yard, and she turns to return. At that point, the other dog runs up and nips her in the hind quarters causing her to yelp pretty loud. The cat hears this, looks over and goes charging down the road and tears into that dog. She ran around it, jumped up on it's neck, began thrashing her head around while biting it and spurring her rear claws into the side of the dog. Of course, I'm tearing down the road to try to get to her, but before I can reach them, the dog was high tailing it up the next block. The cat was a stray that we took in and had for about 18 years before she was killed.
If a dog were attacking my cat, I would have shot it as well.
We had a neighbor with two dogs that were essentially going insane being stuck in the backyard 24/7. One day, they busted through the fence and attacked our cat who was lounging on our patio. She, our cat, jumped into the pool to escape them, but was still torn up pretty good. We told the neighbor to fix the fence and to put in a shock fence or something to keep this from happening again. About 3 months later, the cat was finally well enough to go back to the yard (she loved laying in the sun by the pool in the afternoons). Sure enough, they broke through again and this time killed her. They tore her to shreds. It took a ton of self control to keep from grabbing the dogs and drowning them in our pool. I seriously considered it. But when it came down to it, it wasn't the dogs' fault and doing so wouldn't bring back our cat. I then wanted to beat the crap out of the neighbor, but knew that me going to jail wouldn't accomplish anything either.
Actually, that was probably how our cat wanted to go out. She was a feisty little thing that was ultra-protective of her yard and her dog (our doberman). One day I was out front with the dog and cat doing some yard work. Our dog wasn't allowed to leave the front yard, but every now and then when the kids were playing on the street or in a close by yard, she'd sneak over to get petted. Anyway, we look up and see that she was sneaking down the street where some other dog we didn't recognize was standing. She was very social and loved playing with other dogs. We yell at her to get back in the yard, and she turns to return. At that point, the other dog runs up and nips her in the hind quarters causing her to yelp pretty loud. The cat hears this, looks over and goes charging down the road and tears into that dog. She ran around it, jumped up on it's neck, began thrashing her head around while biting it and spurring her rear claws into the side of the dog. Of course, I'm tearing down the road to try to get to her, but before I can reach them, the dog was high tailing it up the next block. The cat was a stray that we took in and had for about 18 years before she was killed.
Sorry to hear that. I would have taken the neighbor to court. They have to pay vet bills and the value of the pet. I told the truth in my case and was told by a state trooper to next time shut my mouth and practice the three S shoot shovel and shut up. I will do that in the next case. I also have a suppressor for my 22 just for this problem. SBD 22 in the head of any dog or animal attacking my animals on my property. And I have a nice shovel ready to go. One thing I did do is after my case, I sued my idiot neighbor in court for damage to my cat and lawn for it digging up and crapping in my lawn that I was going to let go. I had to pay her for her dog but I got a bit more back in damages to my property. She did not like me shooting on my gun range on my 80 acres and I did not have to quit. I did not shoot before 9am or after 6pm and I even did not make a stink over her horses getting out and tearing up my lawn. Some people think they can do anything they want and the road does not go the other way. The best part is I sold her an old stone house about 800sf and 6 acres for 100k that is now worth about 39k. LOL I sold it at the high of the high. She has to rent it and can not move it for near what she paid me. LOL And I held the note for a year and made 6 percent interest on her. LOL I only had 125k in my 80 acres and two homes, mine and the stone house. Could not have done it to a nicer person.
Last edited by saxondale351; 12-12-2013 at 02:25 PM..
Location: Approximately 50 miles from Missoula MT/38 yrs full time after 4 yrs part time
2,308 posts, read 4,133,520 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll
I am trying to factor that I wasn't there and don't know all the details.
I am interested to hear your thoughts. Maybe someone familiar with the area of this incident can weigh in on the terrain and vegetation.
I have hunted in this general area of MT for over 35 years and have hunted in wolf country ...off and on....for 60 years. The area involved is typical F.S. Road (and western MT snow mobile & Cross Country Ski type terrain). Some open areas, some wooded (Pine & Aspen & Alder) areas.
IMHO the "shooter" (he is not a HUNTER"), was an uninformed, uneducated, trigger happy fool who should have his hunting rights taken away for life; and certainly also be fined for shooting while on a F.S. Road and be subject to a Civil Suit for reimbursement (minimum $5000) to the dog owner.
I must however state that the dog owner didn't take (IMHO) the proper precautions to protect his dogs from possible harm......i.e. : #1/ Why choose an area open to hunting to "run your dogs--that do in fact look similiar to wolves....#2 Why not have each dog wear a "SAFETY 0RANGE vEST TYPE gARMENT..(When I took my horses into Elk Camp (1965 to 2005), I had at least 800 sq inches of Blaze Orange cloth draped all over them...(because the woods are full of uninformed & uneducated FOOLS!!!)
I have hunted big game (wolf included--in fact there is one on the wall behind me) in about 8 western states, Canada and Alaska, and have encountered many a hunter on some of those trips that scared the hell-out-of-me with their mannerisms, their talk; their rifle handling and their lack-of-knowledge regarding proper and ethical hunting protocol. I always got the hell out of their presence and headed in the opposite direction as quickly as possible.
You asked "for my thoughts" ......and the above are some of them.
I have some other thoughts that I have thought "better not be put in print".
My sincere sorrow is extended to the dog owner...............my unbridled disgust, loathing and pity is directed toward this (shooter), who is a disgrace to the sporting community. May he have many sleepless nights.
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