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... and I call Bull**it on the premise of this thread. I'll add to what you have already said. The mere presence of guns doesn't make us as a society any safer.
Thanks for the support! I'm also glad that you supported my intent to keep things light-hearted!
As a left leaning voter and gun owner( I only have one because that's all I need to stop an intruder into my home) I find it interesting that many right leaning voters are so easily duped by their political leaders.
If one just looks at the political maps of the USA you can clearly see where the Democrats are in control and where the Republicans are in control.
The Democrats control the Northeast, West coast, and the wealthy area of the Midwest.
The Republicans control the South, Midwest and most of the rural areas where the less educated and less wealthy are the majority.
It's pretty simple the Republicans don't have enough well educated, wealthy voters to control congress.
So how do they get lower educated and no so wealthy on their side? Scare tactics and it has been working for years.
You convince all those hard working but lower educated folks that the evil Democrats want to take your guns away.
If your a Republican you know that's true right?
Contrary to what the Republicans would have you believe there are many left leaning gun owners. Not because they want to protect themselves from the govt. but because many of them are hunters, target shooters and many of them like myself just like to have a weapon to defend against home intruders plus target shooting is fun.
The Republicans need voters for many of their religious influenced policies that left leaning voters do not agree with.
The left wants to keep religion out of the voting booth and the right wants to keep your there.
So they use guns as one of their scare tactics along with forced abortions, forced gay marriage because after all most people would really rather marry their own sex, forced health care (Oh My Gosh the horror of everyone having health care)
If your one of those former Southern Democrats who finds them selves in the Right Camp and you are buying every gun in sight along with thousands of rounds of ammo you are doing exactly just what the Republican leaders hoped you would.
And they thank you for your votes.
Flame away.
I'm only going take issue with one thing that you said, and that is that "the left doesn't want to take your guns"
Maybe a year ago you could have made that claim and got away with it, but not now. That is EXACTLY what some on the left want to do. That is what these Senators want to do....
No, you can longer claim that "nobody" wants to take away guns. Anyone who believes that at this point is naïve beyond belief. If they don't want to take them, then they want to make the process of owning them so prohibitive with things like ammo taxes, insurance requirements, etc that it wouldn't even be worth it.
I'm only going take issue with one thing that you said, and that is that "the left doesn't want to take your guns"
Maybe a year ago you could have made that claim and got away with it, but not now. That is EXACTLY what some on the left want to do. That is what these Senators want to do....
No, you can longer claim that "nobody" wants to take away guns. Anyone who believes that at this point is naïve beyond belief. If they don't want to take them, then they want to make the process of owning them so prohibitive with things like ammo taxes, insurance requirements, etc that it wouldn't even be worth it.
Yes I will agree that there are some Liberals that want to take your guns away but that is not the agenda of the National party. How foolish it would be to suggest taking away 2nd amendment rights.
Look there are wackos on both sides of the isle because the bottom line is they are looking to get elected.
I am certainly not going to vote for a Liberal candidate if they want to take away my right to protect my home. No reason a compromise can't be made concerning guns. Keep them away from the wackos and make owners responsible for their weapons. When you don't keep your guns locked up and allow kids to get to them or the bad guys to steal them then you should be held responsible for any misfortune.
Just because I am a Liberal does not mean I agree with everything that party stands for. I am not if favor of doling out money to people who don't want to work.
I also believe that everyone should be allowed a weapon/gun at home if they are qualified and not a criminal.
I just don't believe that the 2nd amendment means anybody who wants a gun should have one, that is ridiculous.
Just because I am allowed a gun in my state does not mean I am going to vote for Republicans. I have nothing in common with elitist Republicans and neither do many of the folks who have been duped into voting for them.
If the only thing important in your life is owning a gun then I feel real sorry for those persons.
No reason a compromise can't be made concerning guns.
I agree, gun owners compromised in 1934, in 1968, in 1986, in 1994.
So when are we going to get whatever thing we were compromising for?
See a compromise isn't submission, it isn't giving something to someone for no return, it's giving something to someone for something in return.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD
Keep them away from the wackos and make owners responsible for their weapons. When you don't keep your guns locked up and allow kids to get to them or the bad guys to steal them then you should be held responsible for any misfortune.
Great idea, lets do that with all objects that can cause deaths. Lets make owners responsible for bank robberies if their car is stolen and used as a getaway car, or to smuggle drugs from point A to point B. If you believe that people should be protected from the illegal use of stolen items, then it should apply to all items, where we going to stop? If you have say $1000 stolen from your home, they find the perp, he's carrying $500 of meth, and a $500 street gun do you charge the victim of that theft for possession with intent to supply, and illegal ownership of a handgun? It was the victims money that was stolen that permitted that to occur, and they should be responsible for any misfortune.
What additional punishment do you think should be enforced on people who for whatever reason have kids who kill themselves with their firearms? You understand that the law can already enforce certain possible negligent homicide, and child endangerment charges among many others. If these are not being enforced what makes you think that anything new will?
Here's a question, if you have 10 seconds to arm yourself, what possible use is your gun if it's locked up in a safe, unloaded?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD
I also believe that everyone should be allowed a weapon/gun at home if they are qualified and not a criminal.
Are you qualified? By what measure? What qualifications and certifications do you have that make you think that this...
Quote:
I am certainly not going to vote for a Liberal candidate if they want to take away my right to protect my home.
with your above quote will not take away your right to protect your life and the lives of your loved ones.
I'm lapsed military certified on perhaps a dozen or more weapons systems, and I qualified?
I'm a registered NRA firearms instructor, I shot F-Class long range in competition (haven't for a few years), I'm an FFL with an SOT3, and a graduate of the LFI (back when Ayoob was running it he held several of my classes) am I still qualified?
I have an entirely clean criminal record (not even a speeding ticket) am I still qualified? What is your definition of criminal? Because I know a few lawyers and politicians who I consider completely amoral criminals, but they're not convicted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD
I just don't believe that the 2nd amendment means anybody who wants a gun should have one, that is ridiculous.
But you believe that you should have one. What makes you different and deserving? Who do you believe the 2nd Amendment means should have a gun, if not prima facie "the people"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD
Just because I am allowed a gun in my state does not mean I am going to vote for Republicans. I have nothing in common with elitist Republicans and neither do many of the folks who have been duped into voting for them.
I think that you have more in common with elitist anythings than you would like to admit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD
If the only thing important in your life is owning a gun then I feel real sorry for those persons.
I don't know anyone who's only important factor is owning a gun. Where I live owning a gun can be critical to your survival, so when people around here get antsy about noises that someone coming for their guns, it's a valid concern. However that said, I don't know anyone who believes it's the only thing of importance, most of the most avid gun collectors I know have full and enjoyable lives (they have a lot of money too), and they're the ones who are most likely to fit your criteria.
Originally Posted by PDD
Keep them away from the wackos and make owners responsible for their weapons. When you don't keep your guns locked up and allow kids to get to them or the bad guys to steal them then you should be held responsible for any misfortune.
By your logic, all liberals should be found guilty alongside any crime committed by a second offender since it's the liberals who are against actually punishing criminals.
As we know 80-90% of murders and violent crimes are committed by people with priors.
A Federal assault weapons ban was passed on September 13th, 1994 until 2004. I remember a spate of massacres that happened during that time.
April, 1999, the Columbine massacre happened five years after the AWB was in place. The attackers used sawed-off shotguns, pistols with thirteen 10 round magazines, and improvised explosive devices. They murdered 12 students and injured another 24.
August, 1999, a man killed 12 people and injured 13 alone with two pistols at an Atlanta day trading firm.
September, 1999, a man killed 7 and wounded 7 more, all teenagers, with two pistols and a pipe bomb at a Christian rock band.
Interesting that an Assault Weapons Ban had been in place for 5 years, yet we were still having horrible massacres. There was talk on banning violent video games, banning music with violence in the lyrics, and banning violence in movies. Pass as many bans and restrictions as you want. People bent on mayhem will happily find ways around the laws and restrictions that the masses of us law-abiding have to have forced down our throats.
Last edited by alexanderaf; 12-07-2013 at 04:54 AM..
I agree, gun owners compromised in 1934, in 1968, in 1986, in 1994.
So when are we going to get whatever thing we were compromising for?
See a compromise isn't submission, it isn't giving something to someone for no return, it's giving something to someone for something in return.
Great idea, lets do that with all objects that can cause deaths. Lets make owners responsible for bank robberies if their car is stolen and used as a getaway car, or to smuggle drugs from point A to point B. If you believe that people should be protected from the illegal use of stolen items, then it should apply to all items, where we going to stop? If you have say $1000 stolen from your home, they find the perp, he's carrying $500 of meth, and a $500 street gun do you charge the victim of that theft for possession with intent to supply, and illegal ownership of a handgun? It was the victims money that was stolen that permitted that to occur, and they should be responsible for any misfortune.
What additional punishment do you think should be enforced on people who for whatever reason have kids who kill themselves with their firearms? You understand that the law can already enforce certain possible negligent homicide, and child endangerment charges among many others. If these are not being enforced what makes you think that anything new will?
Here's a question, if you have 10 seconds to arm yourself, what possible use is your gun if it's locked up in a safe, unloaded?
Are you qualified? By what measure? What qualifications and certifications do you have that make you think that this...
with your above quote will not take away your right to protect your life and the lives of your loved ones.
I'm lapsed military certified on perhaps a dozen or more weapons systems, and I qualified?
I'm a registered NRA firearms instructor, I shot F-Class long range in competition (haven't for a few years), I'm an FFL with an SOT3, and a graduate of the LFI (back when Ayoob was running it he held several of my classes) am I still qualified?
I have an entirely clean criminal record (not even a speeding ticket) am I still qualified? What is your definition of criminal? Because I know a few lawyers and politicians who I consider completely amoral criminals, but they're not convicted.
But you believe that you should have one. What makes you different and deserving? Who do you believe the 2nd Amendment means should have a gun, if not prima facie "the people"?
I think that you have more in common with elitist anythings than you would like to admit.
I don't know anyone who's only important factor is owning a gun. Where I live owning a gun can be critical to your survival, so when people around here get antsy about noises that someone coming for their guns, it's a valid concern. However that said, I don't know anyone who believes it's the only thing of importance, most of the most avid gun collectors I know have full and enjoyable lives (they have a lot of money too), and they're the ones who are most likely to fit your criteria.
I will answer one of you questions.I had to get a background check for purchase and also pass a handgun safety course for CCW. If you can't pass the basics you don't deserve to own a gun.
People will never agree about who should and who should not own one but reasonable people should agree that there are certain mental abilities one should have in order to own a gun.
You said you are firearms instructor, I am sure you have run into people that you thought should not be allowed to handle a gun. If not you have not run into too many people.
If I lived in Alaska I would certainly want to be well armed so I can see your point there but we have 10M living here in NC and the situation is very different.
Living in a state where we are the fourth from the bottom in public education spending it is easy to see why so many are paranoid here.
The children of NC deserve much better than that but the Republicans in charge in Raleigh are not education friendly, Gun friendly yes, education friendly not so much.
Last edited by PDD; 12-07-2013 at 03:52 PM..
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, forced health care (Oh My Gosh the horror of everyone having health care)
