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I would never put a sticker on my home (not because of any fear of "invitation" but because it would look tacky). But I could see putting a nice little NRA sticker on my car (I haven't, but would consider it, as I'm a member). I guess these neighbors were saying that if you have a sticker on your car, in your driveway, that would invite them to break into your house, not your car. Other people did say they put stickers or signs on their houses though.
I don't live in a place where gun owners would leave a gun in their car. I don't leave anything of any value in my car. But I still think that if I were considering burgling any homes, I'd avoid the houses with NRA stickers on their cars. To me that signals that the person in the house has a gun and knows their legal rights about using it on me. I've never think the gun might be in their glove compartment. I guess in other areas, people might leave weapons in their vehicles, like hunters.
Don't even get me started on leaving cars unlocked! I've had numerous arguments with people on town watch who've had stuff stolen from their unlocked cars! Talk about "invitation"!
i dont think it was mentioned to us the trucks here had NRA stickers, sounded more like they were heavily decorated with more brand oriented (browning, etc) and other various fish/game stickers.
But your last sentence is 100% correct. Amazing how many complain to the board and the local cops about losing items in their cars, but then admit the cars were unlocked and they left their pills/laptops/ipads in plain view.
Don't underestimate it - Guns are valuable in terms of there being a huge black market for them, and they are easy to sell in that market. In that market a stolen gun is more valuable then the retail price of a new gun since it's difficult for criminals to obtain them. Stolen jewelry, in contrast, just gets pennies on the dollar.
I guess I think like a law-abiding person. I look at my guns, none of which I paid over $350 for, and figure if I were to sell them, they'd be worth less. I'd make a terrible burglar...
yes, the sticker is an invitation to break in when no one is home to steal your guns. Guns are of particular value to a criminal. The only sticker/sign I would use would be the one that says "Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again." It's got more bite then a NRA sticker. Kind of abrasive for everyone not trespassing though, and realistically I wouldn't ever advertise I have guns. Why would you give your potential enemy any more info then necessary?
On the other hand, the robbery carries more risk, because the guns you are going inside to steal could easily be wielded against you by someone you didn't realize was in the house and heard you getting in. Most criminals will choose to knock off the house where they are less likely to get shot in the process, I don't think you will find stats on that, it's just commons sense. Ask these people to put themselves in the criminals shoes. We know that having guard dogs is a deterrent, and a human with a rifle is 100x more dangerous then a dog.
- Arm yourself. A burglar may think the house is empty even if you're home.
- Don't advertise the fact that you have valuable guns in your home. First because it tells potential thieves that you DEFINITELY have something valuable inside, second because pithy signs like "Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again" won't be as funny when a lawyer is using it as evidence of your bloodthirsty nature in a murder trial or wrongful death lawsuit.
If I were a burglar cruising a neighborhood for my next job, I'd pay close attention to the houses with the NRA stickers. I would KNOW there are quick-sale valuables in that house, while there there may be nothing in the one next door. Just do a little scouting work ahead of time to make sure no one was home, sneak in the back door, and ransack the house. If I find something valuable and large (like a gun safe), give a quick call to my associate parked the next street over. He backs a van into the driveway, my crew of 3-4 strong guys throw the safe into the back (along with everything else we've grabbed), and we're gone within 5 minutes of the truck backing up.
I count myself lucky that I live on a street with multiple retired and work-from-home people, one of whom is a former security instructor who always has his Glock 22 in an open-carry holster. Even so, just two weeks ago a couple stole a statue from the lawn across the street (why???? I have no idea). Several of us were home, including the resident in question, but no one but her saw a thing. As usual the thieves were gone in seconds and the police arrived many minutes later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TracySam
I guess I think like a law-abiding person. I look at my guns, none of which I paid over $350 for, and figure if I were to sell them, they'd be worth less. I'd make a terrible burglar...
They WOULD be worth less. But a dozen guns that can be very quickly sold for $100 each to gang-bangers is a quick $1200 haul. Much more valuable than jewelry, power tools, and such that must be sold to a pawn shop or similar.
- Arm yourself. A burglar may think the house is empty even if you're home.
- Don't advertise the fact that you have valuable guns in your home. First because it tells potential thieves that you DEFINITELY have something valuable inside, second because pithy signs like "Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again" won't be as funny when a lawyer is using it as evidence of your bloodthirsty nature in a murder trial or wrongful death lawsuit.
If I were a burglar cruising a neighborhood for my next job, I'd pay close attention to the houses with the NRA stickers. I would KNOW there are quick-sale valuables in that house, while there there may be nothing in the one next door. Just do a little scouting work ahead of time to make sure no one was home, sneak in the back door, and ransack the house. If I find something valuable and large (like a gun safe), give a quick call to my associate parked the next street over. He backs a van into the driveway, my crew of 3-4 strong guys throw the safe into the back (along with everything else we've grabbed), and we're gone within 5 minutes of the truck backing up.
there's this thing called the castle doctrine, might've heard of it. Makes the whole bloodthirsty lawyer lawsuit thing irrelevant for a justified shooting on one's own property. I wouldn't put that sign up, but I'm just saying.
I personally wouldn't advertise that I have guns in the house because there are going to be times when the guns are there and I'm not - even if they are locked up.
Also, I'd stop debating the anti-gunners. You aren't going to change their minds, but they might end up raising your blood pressure.
there's this thing called the castle doctrine, might've heard of it. Makes the whole bloodthirsty lawyer lawsuit thing irrelevant for a justified shooting on one's own property. I wouldn't put that sign up, but I'm just saying.
Also, safes bolt to the floor.
The key word there is "justified". I'm not saying you would intentionally murder someone, but you don't get to determine what is justified. The investigating officers and the DA are the ones who make that determination after the fact during the daylight when things aren't as scary. And they can be heavily influenced by politics and the media. It took the media and Florida politicians four tries, but they finally found a DA willing to press charges against Zimmerman, and he thought he was justified at the time. The presence of one of those "funny" signs or stickers could be just the thing that swings a shooting from a "questionable" case of self-defense (maybe it turns out you knew that stranger from somewhere... maybe he was actually invited in before you shot him?) to homicide.
I know from personal experience (not illegal; it was a demo project) that with enough time and a long enough crowbar a strong guy can dislodge a safe bolted to 3/4" plywood. But your normal burglar won't want to spend that much time, so a bolted safe would probably be secure. But not all safes are bolted; people tend to go with the "it's too heavy to move" rationale, forgetting that it wasn't too heavy for them to install it.
there's this thing called the castle doctrine, might've heard of it. Makes the whole bloodthirsty lawyer lawsuit thing irrelevant for a justified shooting on one's own property. I wouldn't put that sign up, but I'm just saying.
Also, safes bolt to the floor.
Laws vary from state to state, about half of the states have no castle doctrine on the books, thus leaving it open to interpretation of laws by your local overzealous district attorney. Anyways, castle doctrines in most cases just dictates that you don't have to retreat from your home - other laws govern justifiable homicide.
We are all pro-gun ownership and pro-individual defense of property and livelihood. But don't think some vague "castle doctrine" is your get out of jail free card, and yeah a sign as you detail, gun modifications, even internet postings if they happen to find them, may make a bad situation worse. It's not right, it's not fair, but that's the way it is.
Laws vary from state to state, about half of the states have no castle doctrine on the books, thus leaving it open to interpretation of laws by your local overzealous district attorney. Anyways, castle doctrines in most cases just dictates that you don't have to retreat from your home - other laws govern justifiable homicide.
We are all pro-gun ownership and pro-individual defense of property and livelihood. But don't think some vague "castle doctrine" is your get out of jail free card, and yeah a sign as you detail, gun modifications, even internet postings if they happen to find them, may make a bad situation worse. It's not right, it's not fair, but that's the way it is.
Well the castle doctrine, when applicable, prevents civil lawsuits being pressed against you by the perp's family ("you shot my innocent boy! I'm suing!"). Also basically makes it so that you can kill someone who is on your property unwelcomed, I'm amazed at the cases that are deemed "justified", personally I wouldn't have shot in those situations but the people all get off when it goes down on their property. If someone unwanted and unwelcome is advancing on you inside your house or on your property and you have a reasonable fear for your life/well being, you can kill them and be immune legally from prosecution. That's what it comes down to, at least in the free states. In some states you basically have to retreat and be shot before you can drop the threat.
"when the actor reasonably fears imminent peril of death or serious bodily harm to him or herself or another". Thats the definition, generally speaking.
The key word there is "justified". I'm not saying you would intentionally murder someone, but you don't get to determine what is justified. The investigating officers and the DA are the ones who make that determination after the fact during the daylight when things aren't as scary. And they can be heavily influenced by politics and the media. It took the media and Florida politicians four tries, but they finally found a DA willing to press charges against Zimmerman, and he thought he was justified at the time. The presence of one of those "funny" signs or stickers could be just the thing that swings a shooting from a "questionable" case of self-defense (maybe it turns out you knew that stranger from somewhere... maybe he was actually invited in before you shot him?) to homicide.
I know from personal experience (not illegal; it was a demo project) that with enough time and a long enough crowbar a strong guy can dislodge a safe bolted to 3/4" plywood. But your normal burglar won't want to spend that much time, so a bolted safe would probably be secure. But not all safes are bolted; people tend to go with the "it's too heavy to move" rationale, forgetting that it wasn't too heavy for them to install it.
"when the actor reasonably fears imminent peril of death or serious bodily harm to him or herself or another". That is what is considered justified. The officers don't make their decision based on the real time environment they are in when they are taking the report, it's based on when the actual act happened and if the person was reasonable in their fear, at that time and in that situation, not in real time, in broad daylight with cops everywhere. Generally speaking if you live in a free state and someone trespasses on your property and forces their way into your house, your clear to defend yourself. No need to make a show of it or warn the person you have a gun, at that point they have made their bed and no DA is going to go after you. Now, if he retreated and you chased him 300 yards across your property and shot him in the back, that's asking for a DA to come after you. You have to use your head.
Anyway, as far as castle doctrine is concerned, the mere presence of trespassing is usually enough to invoke it, and at that point your protected legally, both criminal and civil. If the person is trespassing deadly force is considered justifiable(which makes the sign "trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again" a very true statement). This varies by state, some require a reasonable fear as well (not hard to conjure up reasonable fear when someone is trespassing and in your house unwelcome). Justifiable homicide isn't the same thing as castle doctrine.
Zimmerman was extremely borderline, personally I think he should have lost. He followed the guy after being told by the police not to, then approached him, basically initiated a fight then shot the guy. That's not self defense, even if once the encounter went down he became in fear for his life (because he's a fat weak dude who can't fight yet got himself into one anyway), self defense is keeping your distance and waiting for the police and not creating a situation where fear for your life would ever show up. He was lucky.
Oh and I bolted my safe to the concrete floor, it ain't going nowhere. Although most safes can be hacked into with modern power tools, it's just a question of time and preparation.
Last edited by tofur; 03-13-2014 at 08:35 PM..
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