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It's not fact. It's opinion. And that's a fact. (See what I did there?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd
It is impossible to charge, and get, more than the market determined price of a good. Doesn't matter if it is ammo currently, or bottled water in the wake of a hurricane.
Gouging takes place when someone is able to take advantage of availability of an item and buys the entire stock with the intention of selling it at a marked up price. The price at which he purchases it is the price point for a free market demand for that product. It is the "market determined price of a good" as you have worded it. The price at which is sells it is an artificial demand because he is the reason for the non-availability to begin with. He may still find buyers, but he has deprived other buyers of the product at the natural market demand for that good. I said just a few posts earlier that something is always worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. But this transaction is not taking place in a natural market. If that were the case, the original point of sell would have charged prices as high as the marked up prices. Regarding ammo, this was far from the case. There was some markup in ammo prices by retailers, but not the obscene markups by those selling ammo in a secondary market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd
If you believe gouging is real, tell us what you believe gouging to be, and we can talk about it.
I have about 10k rds of .22 LR . All of it was purchased one box or one bulk pack at a time . I don't hang around WalMart or Academy waiting for the doors to open so I can scoop up on whatever is on the shelves . I'm going to Cabelas this morning to pick up my order for 500 rds of . 22 Am I a hoarder ? Probably , but none of this will be sold for a profit . It's for me and my grandkids to enjoy .
Getting market determined price has nothing to do with gouging. Gouging is the suspension of the supply and demand constraints upon a free market so that the market determined price has no relation to supply and demand.
The market determined price is irrelevant in a price gouging situation. Gouging is the reason for the market determined price not its result.
It has everything to do with "gouging."
The supply and demand constraints are never suspended, and the market price is ALWAYS established in relation to supply and demand (baring government intervention).
Why don't you define what "gouging" is and then we can have a discussion.
there's a lot less stress about ammo "shortages" when you have the means to make your own ammo..
i cant believe how many people have $2-3k in guns and only one or two boxes of factory ammo, coupled with a snobbery about reloaded ammo & "cheap" presses like the lee loadmaster. lee even has a single-stage kit for about $100 that makes really *good* ammo, just not 500 rounds an hour..
I'd rather have a $149 hi-point & components to make 4,000 rounds for it than a Kimber I can't feed.
The problem is a number of guns are not recommend to use hand loaded or reloaded ammo due to said ammo breaking apart when the gun auto loads it, or it not firing properly or causing stove piping etc when the gun ejects it.
The supply and demand constraints are never suspended, and the market price is ALWAYS established in relation to supply and demand (baring government intervention).
Why don't you define what "gouging" is and then we can have a discussion.
The market price is what the manufacturer and store charge for it to make a reasonable profit.
The issue is people buying the ammo causing a perceived shortage then reselling it for two to three times price thereby once again causing a perceived shortage. This is why it is called gouging.
The ammo companies are making as much ammo as they were ten years ago. They are selling as much ammo to the gov't now as they were ten years ago.
The problem is gun nuts buying and reselling the ammo to two to three times it's value thereby price gouging consumers.
The ammo companies of course aren't seeing this extra money hence they refuse to make more ammo.
I have about 10k rds of .22 LR . All of it was purchased one box or one bulk pack at a time . I don't hang around WalMart or Academy waiting for the doors to open so I can scoop up on whatever is on the shelves . I'm going to Cabelas this morning to pick up my order for 500 rds of . 22 Am I a hoarder ? Probably , but none of this will be sold for a profit . It's for me and my grandkids to enjoy .
You know that ammo will go bad if not properly stored? Also I hope you have it stored in fireproof ammo safes otherwise you could have a nasty explosion of shrapnel that could wound/kill firefighters and other innocent people if your house catches on fire. Plus all the rounds going off will make the fire/rescue people not want to approach your burning house till the ammo cooks meaning it will be hours before they get there since they don't want to move from cover.
It's not fact. It's opinion. And that's a fact. (See what I did there?)
Gouging takes place when someone is able to take advantage of availability of an item and buys the entire stock with the intention of selling it at a marked up price. The price at which he purchases it is the price point for a free market demand for that product. It is the "market determined price of a good" as you have worded it. The price at which is sells it is an artificial demand because he is the reason for the non-availability to begin with. He may still find buyers, but he has deprived other buyers of the product at the natural market demand for that good. I said just a few posts earlier that something is always worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. But this transaction is not taking place in a natural market. If that were the case, the original point of sell would have charged prices as high as the marked up prices. Regarding ammo, this was far from the case. There was some markup in ammo prices by retailers, but not the obscene markups by those selling ammo in a secondary market.
See above.
That's not even the politically expedient government definition of "gouging." But I'll play along. Tell us who this person is that has bought up the entire supply of ammo.
There is no such thing as "artificial" demand. There is a current demand for ammo. There is nothing "artificial" about it.
The "natural market demand" is the current demand. Again, nothing artificial about it.
Baring government intervention, all markets are "natural."
I would dearly love to be a "price gouger." I would have a string of stores called "TaxPhd's Price Gouging Ammo Bazaar's." My motto would be, "Charging more, because I can." Being a price gouger, I can charge a price higher than what would be determined by "natural demand." So, today, I am charging $200 for a 550 round bulk pack of .22 ammo. After all, as a "price gouger" I can charge (and get) more than the market determined price for a product.
How many of those bulk packs do you think I will sell today?
The market price is what the manufacturer and store charge for it to make a reasonable profit.
The issue is people buying the ammo causing a perceived shortage then reselling it for two to three times price thereby once again causing a perceived shortage. This is why it is called gouging.
The ammo companies are making as much ammo as they were ten years ago. They are selling as much ammo to the gov't now as they were ten years ago.
The problem is gun nuts buying and reselling the ammo to two to three times it's value thereby price gouging consumers.
The ammo companies of course aren't seeing this extra money hence they refuse to make more ammo.
There is a whole lot more than that involved in the determination of market price.
Shortages aren't "perceived." There is either a shortage or there isn't.
If someone is able to sell ammo (or any thing else) at a price greater than what was charged previously, that is the new market price.
It is impossible to charge (and get) more than the market determined price for a good, That the market price is higher now than it was at some point in the past is not "gouging." It is a reflection of the changing market conditions.
Tax, what you are describing is the exact same thing I am describing. You call it "new market demand" and I call it "gouging." We view the exact same occurrence with a different term. Hence my assertion that it is a matter of opinion that the act of gouging does or doesn't exist depending on how you choose to word it. You recognize the act of marking up a certain good, it is simply the terms you are arguing. Which is a complete waste of my time.
Tax, what you are describing is the exact same thing I am describing. You call it "new market demand" and I call it "gouging." We view the exact same occurrence with a different term. Hence my assertion that it is a matter of opinion that the act of gouging does or doesn't exist depending on how you choose to word it. You recognize the act of marking up a certain good, it is simply the terms you are arguing. Which is a complete waste of my time.
Are you saying that if prices rise as a result of changing market conditions, it is "gouging"? Are there circumstances where prices can rise where it isn't gouging?
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