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While I made it clear that I prefer external safety to a striker fire pistol, I recognize it's a personal preference. As long as you're mindful of negligent discharge happens and be extra careful don't stick your finger inside of trigger guard unless you're ready to shoot, you will be fine.
Just want to elaborate my thoughts on this....
There is anecodotal evidence that the incident of Accidental Discharge (AD) is on the rise since the introduction of striker fired pistols such as Glock, M&P, etc. It does not imply the design is mechanically unsafe, but perhaps to suggest the design is more prone to cause human error. There are reports of police accidentally discharging the firearm when surprised by someone in the stairwell, or gun in holster and just simply putting it down caused it to discharge (suspected root cause is holster design interfering with trigger).
As long as you're aware the pitfall and be mindful to avoid it (do not have a brain-fart moment), you will be fine as perhaps millions of users use it without external safety.
However; the arguments for *not* having external safety because it "make the operation of it as simple and less complex as possible, particularly during times of stress that occurs during a shooting event" does not hold water for me. It's a matter of training and develop a muscle memory so it is a 2nd nature for you when you draw the firearm. For example, the traditional carrying method of 1911 is to "kocked & locked" and as you draw the firearm your thumb depress the safety. There's a very little evidence of AD or having safety makes you forget to turn it off in a gun fight for 1911 owners.
The other option is go to Double Action/ Single Action (DA/SA) pistols. These pistols have a stronger trigger pull on the 1st shot and much shorter/ lighter pull on 2nd and follow-up shots. Example of these pistols are Sig P-series (P-226, P-229, P-220, etc), Beretta (M9), CZ (CZ-75), basically mostly hammer-strike-fired pistols. The Sig has 10-12 # on the first pull and 4-5 # on follow-up shot, the Beretta has a 15-16# pull on the first shot and 5-6# afterward. Again, there is very little reporting of AD with these DA/SA pistols.
Again, whether you choose a striker fired pistol with or without external safety is up to you. Ultimately you have the responsibility of safe handling the firearm. Whatever you decide, train accordingly.
IMO the DA/SA is of no benefit and more of a detriment since the trigger pulls are not consistent.
Like the saying goes, just go ahead and waste the first shot!
It’s proven that most people are a better shot with a shorter, consistent trigger pull, however if some users feel safer shooting a DA then they should go with it. Accidents do certainly occur and most are due to the user having their finger in the trigger guard prematurely and this includes many law officials as well. The reporting statistics are somewhat unreliable since many of the people involved with an accidental discharge will not fess up to having their finger on the trigger when they shouldn’t have, no target yet in sight.
If you feel safer with a DA or an external safety then that’s certainly your prerogative, go for it but I’ll be happiest with a striker fired without an external safety.
IMO the DA/SA is of no benefit and more of a detriment since the trigger pulls are not consistent.
Like the saying goes, just go ahead and waste the first shot!
It’s proven that most people are a better shot with a shorter, consistent trigger pull, however if some users feel safer shooting a DA then they should go with it. Accidents do certainly occur and most are due to the user having their finger in the trigger guard prematurely and this includes many law officials as well. The reporting statistics are somewhat unreliable since many of the people involved with an accidental discharge will not fess up to having their finger on the trigger when they shouldn’t have, no target yet in sight.
If you feel safer with a DA or an external safety then that’s certainly your prerogative, go for it but I’ll be happiest with a striker fired without an external safety.
I mostly agree. The "crunchenticker" pistol action leaves much to be desired. I personally think a 1911 carried in condition 1 by a properly trained and proficient operator is damn hard to beat.
The DA/SA can be managed several ways:
1 Fire the first shot like a DA revolver, for effect. This is hard to do because most of these have a heavy and hard to manage DA trigger pull. But, some experts have shown it can be done.
2 (probably best for most) **** the hammer with your thumb as you raise the piece to firing level.
3 Fire the first shot in the general direction of the target, then get serious with subsequent rounds. This is considered sloppy gun handling by some, but, some people are good at making it work, and if the piece is a high-capacity one, you can, I guess, afford to "waste" the first shot. This could suggest "Dutch" loading the first shot as a shotshell, assuming your gat ALWAYS cycles reliably with those. I personally don't like that idea, preferring to keep it simple and load only one type of ammo, but, in some circumstances "Dutch" loading can provide some advantage to a person who is very meticulous and puts each round where it needs to go. Just because I don't particularly like an idea does not mean you are obliged to not like it.
The other option is go to Double Action/ Single Action (DA/SA) pistols. These pistols have a stronger trigger pull on the 1st shot and much shorter/ lighter pull on 2nd and follow-up shots. Example of these pistols are Sig P-series (P-226, P-229, P-220, etc), Beretta (M9), CZ (CZ-75), basically mostly hammer-strike-fired pistols. The Sig has 10-12 # on the first pull and 4-5 # on follow-up shot, the Beretta has a 15-16# pull on the first shot and 5-6# afterward. Again, there is very little reporting of AD with these DA/SA pistols.
Again, whether you choose a striker fired pistol with or without external safety is up to you. Ultimately you have the responsibility of safe handling the firearm. Whatever you decide, train accordingly.
I actually wanted to ask that question in the OP, but I forget.
Why does a DA hammer fire have a stronger first trigger pull than a striker fire first trigger pull?
I understand why is harder than a SA hammer, but not why for a striker fire.
The amount of energy that needs to be generated should be the same. On an SA, the blowback ***** the gun.
However; the arguments for *not* having external safety because it "make the operation of it as simple and less complex as possible, particularly during times of stress that occurs during a shooting event" does not hold water for me. It's a matter of training and develop a muscle memory so it is a 2nd nature for you when you draw the firearm. For example, the traditional carrying method of 1911 is to "kocked & locked" and as you draw the firearm your thumb depress the safety. There's a very little evidence of AD or having safety makes you forget to turn it off in a gun fight for 1911 owners.
So if I understand you correctly. A manual safety is important for safety, however, to ensure no mistakes in an active use, you need to develop autonomous reactions that render the firearm identical to those without a manual safety?
So in effect, your admitting the safety is a hurdle that can be overcome through training. Which begs the question of why spend the time training to overcome that hurdle when you can just use a handgun without a manual safety?
If you truly achieve what you're stating any time you draw your handgun your automatic response is to disengage the safety, you need to positively ensure you don't disengage the safety, this brings up potential issues all it's own, when absent mindedly or under stress you need to unholster and automatically disengage the external safety.
Of course if you don't achieve this, you never eliminate the risk of not disengaging the safety, thus enabling trying to use a handgun with the safety engaged, having the "Huh?!?" moment to figure it out, which on the range is 2-5 seconds without excessive stress or 66% - 166% of the typical gun fight duration (Rule of 3s).
The only benefit would be returning to holster, where if the trigger is snagged, it may not fire (not guaranteed, because any mechanical device it not 100% failure free). That issue has multiple mitigations.
I actually wanted to ask that question in the OP, but I forget.
Why does a DA hammer fire have a stronger first trigger pull than a striker fire first trigger pull?
I understand why is harder than a SA hammer, but not why for a striker fire.
The amount of energy that needs to be generated should be the same. On an SA, the blowback ***** the gun.
The DA hammer-fired pistol work just like a DA revolvers. Think of a hammer-fired has 2 notches. It takes a stronger pull to overcomes the first notch and a much smaller force on the 2nd notch. As you pull back the hammer, first pull pull the hammer back, then you'll notice there's a stop, then just with a little more force it fires. Once the slide cycle after firing, another round goes into the chamber and that will prevent the trigger go back into a full rest position, you can actually simulate this by manually cycle the slide then gradually let the trigger return. You will notice the trigger only return 1/4 way then you will hear/ feel a click, that is the 2nd notch or the SA position. In this position it will take only a fraction of force to overcome the resistance to fire.
One way to evaluate the quality of DA pistol is to see how far back to trigger will reset. Generally the shorter the travel the better the firearms. Sig even coined the phrase "Short Reset Trigger" (SRT) to distinguish their models.
The striker-fired mechanism works differently than a hammer-fired. It's basically a firing pin insert into a spring so when you "kocked" the slide, the firing pin gets poll back and stopped by the trigger. To fire simply depress the trigger thereby releasing the tension on the spring and the firing pin accelerates forward striking the primer.
The striker-fired pistol used to considered an "inferior" design because they were often found in pot-metal guns known as the "Saturday night special" until Glock came along and proved its reliability.
So if I understand you correctly. A manual safety is important for safety, however, to ensure no mistakes in an active use, you need to develop autonomous reactions that render the firearm identical to those without a manual safety?
So in effect, your admitting the safety is a hurdle that can be overcome through training. Which begs the question of why spend the time training to overcome that hurdle when you can just use a handgun without a manual safety?
If you truly achieve what you're stating any time you draw your handgun your automatic response is to disengage the safety, you need to positively ensure you don't disengage the safety, this brings up potential issues all it's own, when absent mindedly or under stress you need to unholster and automatically disengage the external safety.
Of course if you don't achieve this, you never eliminate the risk of not disengaging the safety, thus enabling trying to use a handgun with the safety engaged, having the "Huh?!?" moment to figure it out, which on the range is 2-5 seconds without excessive stress or 66% - 166% of the typical gun fight duration (Rule of 3s).
The only benefit would be returning to holster, where if the trigger is snagged, it may not fire (not guaranteed, because any mechanical device it not 100% failure free). That issue has multiple mitigations.
You just love to argue, don't you?
The design of safety is exactly what is the device named after, for the "safe" operation of the firearms. Another word, to prevent the accidental discharge (AD). It's a long proven practice on handguns such as the 1911, semi-automatic and action rifles, shotguns, etc., just about every firearms you can name. To criticize the mechanical use of external safety by you is just laughable and naive.
You can argue till the cows come home that external safety is not needed and the AD are purely due to the "stupidity" of users. It's not going to change the opinions of users and the long standing industry practice (for fear of getting sued). It is a "safe practice".
One could argue the current internal safety design of striker-fired pistol are too easy to overcome thus they do not provide the necessary "safe operation" of firearms. Your excuse of blaming this on "stupid users" is irrelevant. You can come up with lots of excuses. The anecdotal evidence is there has been continued increase of AD since to introduction of strikerstriker-fired pistol where we did not see with 1911 and DA/SA designs.
I "choose" to have external safety on my striker-fired pistols. It is my choice and my decision. I don't want to have that "stupid moment" where I could injured myself or my loved ones. I just hope you don't regret your decision when that "stupid moment " hits you.
I "choose" to have external safety on my striker-fired pistols. It is my choice and my decision. I don't want to have that "stupid moment" where I could injured myself or my loved ones. I just hope you don't regret your decision when that "stupid moment " hits you.
Well stated, a “stupid moment” could cause injury or death to yourself or a love one and an external safety cannot prevent that.
By knowing and always following the “4 Firearm Safety Rules” you and others will be safe, not have a “stupid moment” and if you’d prefer to have an external safety, then by all means go with one, however the 4 basic firearms rules are the real safety.
The design of safety is exactly what is the device named after, for the "safe" operation of the firearms. Another word, to prevent the accidental discharge (AD). It's a long proven practice on handguns such as the 1911, semi-automatic and action rifles, shotguns, etc., just about every firearms you can name. To criticize the mechanical use of external safety by you is just laughable and naive.
You can argue till the cows come home that external safety is not needed and the AD are purely due to the "stupidity" of users. It's not going to change the opinions of users and the long standing industry practice (for fear of getting sued). It is a "safe practice".
One could argue the current internal safety design of striker-fired pistol are too easy to overcome thus they do not provide the necessary "safe operation" of firearms. Your excuse of blaming this on "stupid users" is irrelevant. You can come up with lots of excuses. The anecdotal evidence is there has been continued increase of AD since to introduction of strikerstriker-fired pistol where we did not see with 1911 and DA/SA designs.
I "choose" to have external safety on my striker-fired pistols. It is my choice and my decision. I don't want to have that "stupid moment" where I could injured myself or my loved ones. I just hope you don't regret your decision when that "stupid moment " hits you.
You can choose how you safely handle firearms, but don't come trying to sell me that a manual safety is safer than not having one. Since the safe operation of firearms has nothing to do with automatic or manual safety devices.
It's all about how you control your firearm. You can't rely on manual safeties, or grip safeties, or trigger safeties, or drop safeties, or heavy trigger pulls. You can only rely on...
All guns are always loaded.*Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.
Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.*(For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)
Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target.*This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.
Identify your target, and what is behind it.*Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.
None of these relies on any mechanical safety, mechanical safeties promote stupid moments, because you violate one of these rules and are saved by the safety that one day is disabled or fails at the time of your stupid moment.
You can choose how you safely handle firearms, but don't come trying to sell me that a manual safety is safer than not having one. Since the safe operation of firearms has nothing to do with automatic or manual safety devices.
It's all about how you control your firearm. You can't rely on manual safeties, or grip safeties, or trigger safeties, or drop safeties, or heavy trigger pulls. You can only rely on...
All guns are always loaded.*Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.
Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.*(For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)
Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target.*This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.
Identify your target, and what is behind it.*Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.
None of these relies on any mechanical safety, mechanical safeties promote stupid moments, because you violate one of these rules and are saved by the safety that one day is disabled or fails at the time of your stupid moment.
Exactly correct, however, HB is just trying to convince himself and others that an external safety makes the firearm safer while we know it’s all about the 4 gun safety rules, regardless of an ES!
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and 5-6# afterward. Again, there is very little reporting of AD with these DA/SA pistols.
