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Old 04-15-2024, 09:11 AM
 
Location: East Texas, with the Clan of the Cave Bear
3,270 posts, read 5,653,389 times
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I love Glocks. Would I choose the most powerful Glock to save me from griz??? NO !!!!!!

Minimum .44mag. And no lightweight scandium framed .44mag either. If you're worried about carrying the extra weight then lose 5 lbs or build up your strength and endurance or both.
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Old 04-15-2024, 09:56 AM
 
10,822 posts, read 5,750,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTex View Post
I love Glocks. Would I choose the most powerful Glock to save me from griz??? NO !!!!!!

Minimum .44mag. And no lightweight scandium framed .44mag either. If you're worried about carrying the extra weight then lose 5 lbs or build up your strength and endurance or both.
There is more to the debate. I'm not ready to switch to a 10mm, but they shouldn't be discounted out of hand.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/10m...mag-bear-guns/

How different would their tests be with a steel framed revolver? I don't know. But at least they have data to support their position.
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Old 04-15-2024, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,235 posts, read 57,231,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
There is more to the debate. I'm not ready to switch to a 10mm, but they shouldn't be discounted out of hand.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/10m...mag-bear-guns/

How different would their tests be with a steel framed revolver? I don't know. But at least they have data to support their position.
The 10mm with a hard cast bullet is apparently quite effective against bears. Who knew? The Glock, reliable, tough, OK with hot loads, reasonably priced for what you get, is hard to beat, but if you prefer a 1911 type gat, well so do I, OK?

10mm ammo is loaded to different levels of power, a couple of brands that I know will be right up there in terms of power are Underwood and Buffalo Bore. "To be used only in modern weapons in good condition" as the man says. Or, load your own.

I would rather see a guy count on placing his shots properly than on magazine capacity. I don't think multiple badly placed rounds are going to do much but enrage a bear.

Then of course you have the "beyond .44 Magnum" revolvers, including the excellent Freedom Arms 5-shot stainless single actions. .454 Casull, 475 Linebaugh, etc. These are quite compact considering the power level. Of course various .44 Mag and for that matter .41 Mag SA and DA wheelguns are out there and are still as good as they were 50 years ago. And there are big DA gats, like the 460 S&W, 480 Ruger, etc. You need to get in some serious range time with these, you can't just load up and hope for the best, shot placement still matters with these small cannons.

I'm sure bears have been killed with .357 Magnums, but IMHO it's rather on the light side, you can get a heavier caliber weapon for not much more money. There was a guy on here who was determined to argue that a high-capacity 9mm would make good bear medicine. I don't think he ever tried it. Or maybe he did try it and that's why we have not heard from him in a while?
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Old 04-15-2024, 05:32 PM
 
10,822 posts, read 5,750,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
The 10mm with a hard cast bullet is apparently quite effective against bears. Who knew? The Glock, reliable, tough, OK with hot loads, reasonably priced for what you get, is hard to beat, but if you prefer a 1911 type gat, well so do I, OK?
I love my 1911's, but the penetration of .45acp leaves something to be desired for large animal defense.

My 629 in a chest holster is my constant companion when I'm in grizz/moose/cat country, which is most of the time, but I don't get too spun up about the 10mm vs .44 mag debate. I will say that we have run some "Bear Prep" testing, using multiple shooters of various skill levels, and various firearms with different courses of fire, and I will say that the results were heavily influenced by shooter skill. So much so that some self proclaimed "shooters" left very embarrassed. What was the issue? Simple. Their "skill" at shooting consisted of watching lots of John Wayne movies growing up, buying lots of guns, hunting regularly, and occasionally going plinking at the local gravel pit. In a word, they sucked. Didn't matter if they were shooting a .357, 10mm, or .44 mag, they would likely have ended up mauled, unless their first shot would result in a likely kill or incapacitation of a bear. And good first shots from that group were very rare.

Contrast that with other shooters that have been actively competing in various action shooting disciplines for decades. For that group, good solid hits were the norm, rather than the exception, and it didn't much matter what gun they were shooting.

So, my conclusion is this - for those that fall into the active competitor group, shoot whatever you want. You'll likely be fine. For those in the first group that I described, start practicing a whole lot more than you currently have been, because your skill level may well be a whole lot less than what you currently believe.
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Old 04-16-2024, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,235 posts, read 57,231,488 times
Reputation: 18637
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
I love my 1911's, but the penetration of .45acp leaves something to be desired for large animal defense.

My 629 in a chest holster is my constant companion when I'm in grizz/moose/cat country, which is most of the time, but I don't get too spun up about the 10mm vs .44 mag debate. I will say that we have run some "Bear Prep" testing, using multiple shooters of various skill levels, and various firearms with different courses of fire, and I will say that the results were heavily influenced by shooter skill. So much so that some self proclaimed "shooters" left very embarrassed. What was the issue? Simple. Their "skill" at shooting consisted of watching lots of John Wayne movies growing up, buying lots of guns, hunting regularly, and occasionally going plinking at the local gravel pit. In a word, they sucked. Didn't matter if they were shooting a .357, 10mm, or .44 mag, they would likely have ended up mauled, unless their first shot would result in a likely kill or incapacitation of a bear. And good first shots from that group were very rare.

Contrast that with other shooters that have been actively competing in various action shooting disciplines for decades. For that group, good solid hits were the norm, rather than the exception, and it didn't much matter what gun they were shooting.

So, my conclusion is this - for those that fall into the active competitor group, shoot whatever you want. You'll likely be fine. For those in the first group that I described, start practicing a whole lot more than you currently have been, because your skill level may well be a whole lot less than what you currently believe.
Well, fair enough, but the 1911 "isn't just for .45ACP anymore." Colt has them in 10mm and was one of the only follow on gats to the Bren Ten. A 38 Super loaded with hard cast would be close to the 10mm.

That said, yeah, shooter skill is more important than caliber or model of gat used.

For a charging bear, not that I have any first hand experience, but from what I have read, a brain shot is about your only real hope.

You need a bullet that penetrates, not expands. Thus hard cast or even better some sort of "Honey Badger" monolithic copper bullet. Underwood offers both.
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Old 04-17-2024, 07:59 AM
 
Location: East Texas, with the Clan of the Cave Bear
3,270 posts, read 5,653,389 times
Reputation: 4764
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
There is more to the debate. I'm not ready to switch to a 10mm, but they shouldn't be discounted out of hand.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/10m...mag-bear-guns/

How different would their tests be with a steel framed revolver? I don't know. But at least they have data to support their position.
Yeah, I read that article and my conclusion was "apples and oranges".

Look, there are instances of folks killing a bear with a .22LR and even poachers shooting elephants in a lung with a .22LR and following/tracking them until they succumbed (most likely from a pneumothorax).

I don't discount a 10mm but a .44mag would be my choice vs an upland grizzly bear. Ft/lbs of energy and a charging bear starting at 100' gives you one good shot. Pick your poison.

Tomato vs tomatoe, Ford vs Chevy, Mercury vs Yamaha . . . it is mostly preference.

Last edited by BobTex; 04-17-2024 at 08:21 AM..
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Old 04-17-2024, 08:11 AM
 
10,822 posts, read 5,750,969 times
Reputation: 10999
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTex View Post
Yeah, I read that article and my conclusion was "apples and oranges".

Look, there are instances of folks killing a bear with a .22LR and even poachers shooting elephants in a lung with a .22LR and following/tracking them until they succumbed (most likely from a pneumothorax).

I don't discount a 10mm but a S&W Mountain Gun in .44mag would be my choice vs an upland grizzly bear. Ft/lbs of energy and a charging bear starting at 100' gives you one good shot. Pick your poison.

Tomato vs tomatoe, Ford vs Chevy, Mercury vs Yamaha . . . it is mostly preference.
Yup, that’s what I carry.
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Old 04-18-2024, 11:27 AM
 
Location: New England
3,316 posts, read 1,792,067 times
Reputation: 9249
Quote:
Originally Posted by gofunme View Post
.45 acp is much maligned due to ballistics on charts. In the real world of close up confontration, God's caliber to the head (1 shot) will make even a huge bear turn and go the other way. A second shot to the rear will get it running away. Glock 30 (45acp) is great gun.
Good luck with that.

If you surprise a bear and it charges you, you're not going to have the time to aim for a head shot.
Unless you can point shoot like Jerry Miculek you're bear food.
(google him if you're not familiar with his reputation.
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Old 04-24-2024, 03:54 AM
 
Location: Charlotte
3,870 posts, read 4,095,614 times
Reputation: 2382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver 47 View Post
Good luck with that.

If you surprise a bear and it charges you, you're not going to have the time to aim for a head shot.
Unless you can point shoot like Jerry Miculek you're bear food.
(google him if you're not familiar with his reputation.
Jerry could take a charging bear out with a .22
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Old 04-24-2024, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
19,902 posts, read 22,830,404 times
Reputation: 25174
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
I love my 1911's, but the penetration of .45acp leaves something to be desired for large animal defense.

My 629 in a chest holster is my constant companion when I'm in grizz/moose/cat country, which is most of the time, but I don't get too spun up about the 10mm vs .44 mag debate. I will say that we have run some "Bear Prep" testing, using multiple shooters of various skill levels, and various firearms with different courses of fire, and I will say that the results were heavily influenced by shooter skill. So much so that some self proclaimed "shooters" left very embarrassed. What was the issue? Simple. Their "skill" at shooting consisted of watching lots of John Wayne movies growing up, buying lots of guns, hunting regularly, and occasionally going plinking at the local gravel pit. In a word, they sucked. Didn't matter if they were shooting a .357, 10mm, or .44 mag, they would likely have ended up mauled, unless their first shot would result in a likely kill or incapacitation of a bear. And good first shots from that group were very rare.

Contrast that with other shooters that have been actively competing in various action shooting disciplines for decades. For that group, good solid hits were the norm, rather than the exception, and it didn't much matter what gun they were shooting.

So, my conclusion is this - for those that fall into the active competitor group, shoot whatever you want. You'll likely be fine. For those in the first group that I described, start practicing a whole lot more than you currently have been, because your skill level may well be a whole lot less than what you currently believe.
I point to this video made by a guy/team that illustrates the speed of a charge by a momma grizzly.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YErf3N0MpDY

It can happen so fast, and the are so low to the ground it's like trying to hit a bowling ball at 20+mph.

This guy lives in Paradise Valley and he did a heck of a documentary on a momma mountain lion and her kits. He discovered her dens literally in his backyard. Fascinating.
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