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You've summed up something that took me several months to wrap my head around. I think we are very fortunate to be on our way out, but I must say that the culture of this area is fairly unique with respect to some of the issues you brought up. Admittedly, I've never lived in "very" liberal area like Portland or San Francisco, but I've lived in MANY places that some around here would classify as liberal.
The thing is no one was so hostile in those other places. Some of those areas trended fairly conservative in areas, but that didn't mean you had to hate parks and the outdoors, or hate light rail, or LOVE sprawl and traffic. It seems like everyone here wears their politics on their sleeves and if you don't march lock step, you are shunned by the community.
The really funny thing is I'm actually fairly conservative, but my neighbors won't talk to me because I ride my bicycle around, don't own a gun at home (I have kids), and in general have gotten the reputation on the street that I'm "different". I find the whole thing incredibly funny (I didn't when I thought I would have to raise my kids here) because I probably agree with 95% of the various political stances these folks take, but... not 100% and I refuse to fake it, so the street's response is to become hostile and wait till I move (I guess I can't knock their tactics, I AM moving, hahaha!).
Again, not to paint with an overly broad brush, we've met some amazing people here that we will truly miss. Some folks respond to this local culture by becoming extra opening and welcoming. But overall the best way to describe all this is "cutting off the nose to spite the face", that's the best way I can think of describing the HR area.
Thanks so much for all the input, its feels great to know I'm not crazy. I really think this kind of local culture is a very bad omen for the region for the next 30-60 years. I read the Virginian Pilot in horror most mornings, with the naked hatred of development and incredible over concern with "crime" (good lord, look at this forum's posts and compare it to a similar size/crime city, it seems like everyone that lives here has a side hobby of fear-mongering and being scared of imaginary black people that are going to come steal their housewares, some of my neighbors arm themselves and walk around the streets, sorry I mean "patrol our neighborhood" at night because one of our ten thousand year old neighbors saw someone in a "hoodie" several weeks back and "didn't recognize them" now mind you, there hasn't been crime where I live in YEARS) While I look forward to never having to step foot in the area again, I will keep tabs on HR for the coming decades because I think its going to be a very interesting case study about how NOT to run a city/region.
Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill is an awesome area! If you get bored come hang out with us in the Rockies!
Cheers!
I definitely know where you are coming from with this. Just not too long ago, there was a topic on here about the terrible crime in NN which basically boiled down to what you described. It's pretty interesting talking to old friends when I come back to this area. I remember having a discussion with some of them once about the quiet neighborhood we live in and how it's turning "ghetto". They never wanted to specify why they thought that, but I'm sure it had something to do with more black residents moving in. Another thing that happened was when I was recommending neighborhoods for a friend of mine who was moving into an apartment. The apartment complex I recommended was largely composed of black blue collar residents and his first question was "I hear there's a lot of crime there". The most appalling that has to have occurred to me while I was living there happened when people said a racial slur in my presence. Both times it happened, someone was driving by playing hip-hop music and they didn't think there was anything wrong with it since I'm "mixed" and don't act "ghetto".
I definitely know where you are coming from with this. Just not too long ago, there was a topic on here about the terrible crime in NN which basically boiled down to what you described. It's pretty interesting talking to old friends when I come back to this area. I remember having a discussion with some of them once about the quiet neighborhood we live in and how it's turning "ghetto". They never wanted to specify why they thought that, but I'm sure it had something to do with more black residents moving in. Another thing that happened was when I was recommending neighborhoods for a friend of mine who was moving into an apartment. The apartment complex I recommended was largely composed of black blue collar residents and his first question was "I hear there's a lot of crime there". The most appalling that has to have occurred to me while I was living there happened when people said a racial slur in my presence. Both times it happened, someone was driving by playing hip-hop music and they didn't think there was anything wrong with it since I'm "mixed" and don't act "ghetto".
Yeah... Once again, you're in my brain (get out! you!! get out of my brain!)... the racism cuts me deep. I feel like I get "tested" with slurs dropped in my presence to see how I respond. You likely have it / had it rough, me, I'm super white, as white as they come, so I get in the "club". Now I grew up in a racist place (racism is also not a great term, its more like "otherism" cause its not only related to the color of your skin) where people never did this. We had otherists, we had non-otherists, people argued and then saw each other on the street and still had to live next to each other.
HR is unfortunately, as I see it, locked into a pure suburban "enclave" living style because of the inability the locals to acknowledge that others live in their community. You need cars and physical space to ensure you never see the people that are "other" all the benefits of 2013 (walk able communities, local commerce, feelings of community, etc.) are not possible with this urban design. But this urban design FLOWS from intolerance... that's a big problem. It will make it really hard to pivot away and all the "how to fix place xxx" or "too much traffic" complaints will be really, really, REALLY, hard to fix.
Like I said, this is shaping up to be an interesting experiment, I look forward to seeing how it turns out.
I started reading your post because I am looking to move to the east coast and the HR area was my first choice (until I started reading these threads ) I was further intrigued when I read you are moving to Denver. I live in the Denver metro area now and what you seem to want is what I am tired of and want to get away from. It may be just my reading comprehension, but do you not like the HR area because you are bored with what it has to offer, or is living there for too much work for too little reward for you? I am a single girl, late 30s,my parents moved us to Denver from Chicago when I was a kid. I mostly want a weather change, so tired of dry, cold, and snow. No job yet, but given the heavy military presence I was hoping for a civilian job. I do like good restaurants, museums, and I guess the Tides will have to do for my baseball fix. I'm certainly not the clubbing type. Given that, do you still think I wouldn't like it there? The talk about the cost of living does worry me, but here in a southwest suburb I am paying $1000 for a 1x1 apt, so I guess that's relative. Other cities I was considering are Richmond and Raleigh, but I would like to be closer to the Ocean. Also Charleston/Columbia. Any input would be appreciated.
I started reading your post because I am looking to move to the east coast and the HR area was my first choice (until I started reading these threads ) I was further intrigued when I read you are moving to Denver. I live in the Denver metro area now and what you seem to want is what I am tired of and want to get away from. It may be just my reading comprehension, but do you not like the HR area because you are bored with what it has to offer, or is living there for too much work for too little reward for you? I am a single girl, late 30s,my parents moved us to Denver from Chicago when I was a kid. I mostly want a weather change, so tired of dry, cold, and snow. No job yet, but given the heavy military presence I was hoping for a civilian job. I do like good restaurants, museums, and I guess the Tides will have to do for my baseball fix. I'm certainly not the clubbing type. Given that, do you still think I wouldn't like it there? The talk about the cost of living does worry me, but here in a southwest suburb I am paying $1000 for a 1x1 apt, so I guess that's relative. Other cities I was considering are Richmond and Raleigh, but I would like to be closer to the Ocean. Also Charleston/Columbia. Any input would be appreciated.
Hmm...
Frankly its a complicated issue. I wouldn't say "bored", living here is too much work for too little reward would be a better fit, I guess, but that's not accurate either.
I think choosing where to live is like buying a stock. HR has doubled down on the car-based suburban sprawl urban design and its local economy is heavily anchored by the military. There are no real colleges or academic medical centers around to anchor things. I perceptive this as a stock without a bright prospect. Denver metro, for me, is the opposite. One of the centers of in-migration among 20-40 years olds with degrees, not walkable, but working furiously towards it. Denver is by no means unique, but in my particular situation it makes the most sense, and I feel it makes sense in the long term.
Its definitely a weather change between the two regions! For me that's a plus, but again, YMWV. I know people who also had a bad time in Denver, and that can definitely happen, especially if you do not live in the Denver city proper, as the suburbs and exurbs of Denver are some of the worst in the country.
Having visited some of those areas you mentioned, I would choose any of them over HR. Especially Richmond or Raleigh. Living by the "Ocean" is like living by the "Mountains" in Denver, you don't need to be on top of them to enjoy them! I would troll around the forums some more to pick up the flavor of the areas, but for me, I would not choose to move to HR.
But then again, I might be the wrong person to ask, cause if I was you I would just move to City Park, Congress Park, Wash Park West, Five Points, or any of the other amazing city neighborhoods in Denver!
@MSydey - Do some more research before you move to HR. HR is my hometown, and there are things that I like about it. Make no mistake, it is a giant military base (largest Navy base in the word, airforce base , marine base, army base). Almost the entire economy is the military bases. Growing up here, 99% of the people you meet are either in the military or associated with the military somehow. There are some low paying jobs at the hotels on the beach, mostly that high school kids work. All of my friends who went to college left the area after graduating. Young professionals do not stay in the area. You mentioned Raleigh and Richmond, they are more well rounded cities with more typical job markets, professional jobs and diverse jobs. (I'm sure someone is going to argue that there are other jobs here - lawyers and doctors, etc.. but these are exceptions.. basically the small support staff for the military and their families. Also, I'm considering moving to Richmond or Raleigh to be close to family in HR. Richmond is 1.5 hour from the beach, close enough)
@Geork - I agree with alot of what you've said but I have to disagree with the "no colleges" thing. There are a bunch of colleges in the area including ODU/Old Dominion University (good school) and William & Mary, which is a very highly regarded, prestiguous college and gets students from all over the East Coast and country. Many famous and successful people have graduated from William and Mary.
@Geork - I agree with alot of what you've said but I have to disagree with the "no colleges" thing. There are a bunch of colleges in the area including ODU/Old Dominion University (good school) and William & Mary, which is a very highly regarded, prestiguous college and gets students from all over the East Coast and country. Many famous and successful people have graduated from William and Mary.
Very, very true. Nothing against the prestige of either place, but neither schools functions to anchor the community. W&M probably could, maybe, but its just too far away. Plus, the way its set up in Williamsburg it doesn't really have a large community footprint (with lots of associated biotech firms, computer firms, etc.). ODU could do that for Norfolk, and it does not a small degree, but its just not big enough.
Again, no knock again the education those schools provide, but neither one has a large and diverse "campus" surrounding it that provides an economic buffer to the community.
I agree. William & Mary (and Williamsburg) are lovely, but kind of remote off by themselves. Not really integrated into a city or community. ODU is more of a commuter school, doesn't have lively community surrounding it like other schools I've seen.
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) I was further intrigued when I read you are moving to Denver. I live in the Denver metro area now and what you seem to want is what I am tired of and want to get away from. It may be just my reading comprehension, but do you not like the HR area because you are bored with what it has to offer, or is living there for too much work for too little reward for you? I am a single girl, late 30s,my parents moved us to Denver from Chicago when I was a kid. I mostly want a weather change, so tired of dry, cold, and snow. No job yet, but given the heavy military presence I was hoping for a civilian job. I do like good restaurants, museums, and I guess the Tides will have to do for my baseball fix. I'm certainly not the clubbing type. Given that, do you still think I wouldn't like it there? The talk about the cost of living does worry me, but here in a southwest suburb I am paying $1000 for a 1x1 apt, so I guess that's relative. Other cities I was considering are Richmond and Raleigh, but I would like to be closer to the Ocean. Also Charleston/Columbia. Any input would be appreciated.
