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Its the only urban area to speak of in VA Beach. If we want to continue to develop an area of commerce, building Walmart's is going to have to stop. Encourage local business', not chain nation. Redistribute revenues to people who strive to change the landscape of the area. Develop grants to create incentives to people who want to begin small business ventures. In the end, all things merge into one...and a light rail track runs through it.
I am very, very, very, disappointed by the WalMart. I thought this was supposed to be an urban area. But you know, WalMart finally muscled their way into DC, so anything could happen. Their WalMart stores look like the surrounding environment though.
This is the bottom line. Virginia Beach is trying to create an urban environment in a time when most cities are taking on a suburban aesthetic. So you're still getting suburban amenities in an "urban" environment. This is actually a good thing in Brooklyn or Queens, when they never had a Target or a Whole Foods before. In a suburban area like Virginia Beach, it is still a good thing, but they haven't made it work in a way that does not take away from the urban environment they are trying to create.
Why not take the "mixed use" approach, in Town Center Virginia Beach? Similar to what they've done in Ghent; build residential above the retail, on the 2nd - 6th floors. WalMart would not go for that idea; well then find someone who will. The city wants to remove a lane on Virginia Beach Boulevard in that area to give it a more intimate feel, and then institute a slower speed limit. Only 3 lanes each direction, no turn lanes.
We don't need skyscrapers for eye candy. If those skyscrapers are mere hotels, or residential projects, they don't account for much. Where are the actual businesses at Town Center? Where is Sentara, other than building hospitals in a cheaper part of town where the real estate is a lot less per square foot? I hate skyscrapers, for the sake of building them, just a shock and awe campaign to give the illusion that important is going on, or to communicate wealth, for the sake of making the argument.
The difference between Town Center, and the downtown area in most cities, is that most downtown areas are not the work of a single developer. They're funky, they're dirty, you have weirdos there, and you never know who you may see on those city streets. That is what Town Center is missing. It does not blend into the surrounding environment. There aren't any buses going through there, no cabs, etc etc etc.
I would love to see it several decades from now when The Tide stops there, or passes through there, and you see regular people on the streets. Until then it will be a sterile environment. Perhaps Virginia Beach can attract some money, and talent, and build a theater district there to rival other cities. Put all of the good theaters in once place, so I don't have to go all over Norfolk and Portsmouth, etc to see a decent show.
The bio-tech industry is coming...it will bring extremely high paying jobs and people who are smarter than me. Hampton Roads is ideal for light rail because of the sprawl, not in spite of it. Let's not confuse light rail with a subway system. Light rail more closely identifies with commuter rail which brings the burbs to the city centers. Connect them all, and revitalization continues.
Subways are great for densely populated areas, light rail is great for sprawl. Let's get connected.
Biotech (if it comes) is coming to Princess Anne commons though, it is not anywhere near the proposed rail (even the one that goes all the way to the ocean front). How are you going to serve that area? Use eminent domain to take a bunch of property or build a 500 million dollar elevated rail spur that shoots down Damn Neck or Holland Rd though a bunch of suburban housing complexes and strip malls? It just doesn't make sense to me... it would be easier to increase bus service on the existing roads since 95% of people will probably continue to use the roads. There is no one central business center around here that everyone is commuting into like a DC or Boston. And that's fine...
Even in your biggest, most connected cities (NYC is the lone exception), 80% - 90% of the people in the metro drive to work... Out of the 50 largest metros we aren't even the worst according to the Census Bureau (see page 8), Tampa, Columbus, Kansas City, Raleigh, Nashville, OKC, Jacksonville and others all have a low percentage of commuters that use public transit than HR.
Don't get me wrong, I support the rail at least to town center and greenbrier since those areas should develop into an urban core eventually. But beyond that I'm not sure that expanded bus service wouldn't be cheaper and more effective. And in the long run I think technology like self-driving cars might make most of that obsolete anyways for people in the suburbs.
Columbus needs rail, like yesterday. It was a big city already, and now that they've annexed all of their suburbs, its an even bigger city. Cleveland has elevated rail. I'm really not sure what Columbus is doing.
Anyway, Biotech is a small, lucrative, industry. 9 out of 10 people can't work that industry. And I'm referring to educated people, not your average worker. Plus its medical, and most people don't have the temperament for that type of work. The social dynamic, and the office politics in a medical environment is different from other professions. Its not like its traditional office work. I'm still not sure why that is even being mentioned in this thread.
Virginia Beach can try and pretend Town Center is "downtown" but if you look at it it's overwhelmingly retail/restaurant. That is not an urban core.
It is a work in progress but it is not like there aren't businesses headquartered there or doctors offices, banks, and colleges there as well where people either work (with good pay) or attend classes. You have Armada Hoffler, HBA Services, Troutman and Sanders, Williams Mullen, Clark Nexsen, Hampton University College of VB, the Art Institute, University of Phoenix, Town Bank, Town Center Pediatrics, Virginian Pilot, Mcdaniel Laser and Cosmetic Surgery etc...
It is a bit disingenuous, in my opinion, to simultaneously criticize the area for not having an urban core and also criticize it for trying to develop and urban core. It is not like these things happen overnight. When I was a kid there was Columbus theater and a bunch of trees over there. For me, the difference in the last 15-20 years is night and day. Hopefully the next 15 or 20 will be even more impressive. Nobody is pretending it is "downtown" already, I think pretty much everyone here knows that it is an area targeted to be the central business district that is a work in progress... but a definitely step in the right direction.
UHgrad, there is a lot of money to be made in tearing down areas and building them back up. Even if it does come at the cost of disrupting an already established economy. Cities do it all the time. My fear is that if Hampton Roads grows and becomes as successful as some of the metro areas we often compare it to they'll be willing to put the cart before the horse. It wouldn't surprise me; I believe the only reason they rarely do that around here is because they know they can't get those households back.
But let another 500,000, or a million, people move into HR in a short amount of time. You would be surprised how things would change.
Columbus needs rail, like yesterday. It was a big city already, and now that they've annexed all of their suburbs, its an even bigger city. Cleveland has elevated rail. I'm really not sure what Columbus is doing.
Anyway, Biotech is a small, lucrative, industry. 9 out of 10 people can't work that industry. And I'm referring to educated people, not your average worker. Plus its medical, and most people don't have the temperament for that type of work. Its not like its traditional office work. I I'm still not sure why that is even being mentioned in this thread.
That's all fine, I am just making the point that this metro really isn't all that unusual in its "poor public transit" or primarily suburban layout. Out of the 50 largest metros only about 5 of them have more than 10% of commuters using public transit. Most of the rest of the country is suburbs around a central business district where most people drive just like we do. Most of the country commutes be car. I get tired of people acting as if NYC, Chicago, DC, San Fran, Seattle, and Boston are the norm... they are not the norm. They are the exceptions.
We can have public transit ridership comparable to most other metros with just a little bit of targeted development in certain areas. But rail is not the end all of everything because we have bases, ports, and shipyards as our largest employers... none of which can be moved downtown. There will have to be busses, ferries, or some other new technology (fleets of optimized driverless cars, widespread telecommuting) to serve this layout if we ever want a significant percentage of the population to not drive by themselves to work everyday.
One of the problems the city has with marketing Town Center is that we only see the retail. You have to either live there, work there, play there or conduct business there to know that it is a self sustaining environment. It is not completely autonomous, but what neighborhood is.
Posters, including myself, would like to see a rich environment, and that doesn't happen overnight. But it's still open for business, and for the most part, everyone is still there. I don't see any vacancies. That is a success in my book.
That's all fine, I am just making the point that this metro really isn't all that unusual in its "poor public transit" or primarily suburban layout. Out of the 50 largest metros only about 5 of them have more than 10% of commuters using public transit. Most of the rest of the country is suburbs around a central business district where most people drive just like we do. Most of the country commutes be car. I get tired of people acting as if NYC, Chicago, DC, San Fran, Seattle, and Boston are the norm... they are not the norm. They are the exceptions.
We can have public transit ridership comparable to most other metros with just a little bit of targeted development in certain areas. But rail is not the end all of everything because we have bases, ports, and shipyards as our largest employers... none of which can be moved downtown. There will have to be busses, ferries, or some other new technology (fleets of optimized driverless cars, widespread telecommuting) to serve this layout if we ever want a significant percentage of the population to not drive by themselves to work everyday.
My only real complaint about HR public transportation, is that I've been in smaller metro areas where the bus runs frequently. Anywhere from 20 minutes to every 5 minutes during rush hour. I'm not talking NYC. I'm talking Dayton and Akron, OH. Cities with metros half or a third as big as HR.
The cities you mentioned have rail, which is it's own thing, but my beef is having to wait anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours for the bus. There has to be a better way. Get rid of bus line ups. Decentralize the system. Create multiple hubs, make an investment into the stops. If I didn't use Google Maps I'm not sure what I would do. For those that don't know already, HR is an area that utilizes Google Maps and publishes departures online. You don't have to wait in the rain and the snow. But the bus has to come on time, and the driver has to stop and pick up passengers, for it to work.
Where are the articulated buses, and why don't we have multiple buses during peak times on a route in Hampton Roads? HRT isn't doing a good job of explaining their bulls*. At peak times you need 3 buses on a route, not one.
My only real complaint about HR public transportation, is that I've been in smaller metro areas where the bus runs frequently. Anywhere from 20 minutes to every 5 minutes during rush hour. I'm not talking NYC. I'm talking Dayton and Akron, OH. Cities with metros half or a third as big as HR.
The cities you mentioned have rail, which is it's own thing, but my beef is having to wait anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours for the bus. There has to be a better way. Get rid of bus line ups. Decentralize the system. Create multiple hubs, make an investment into the stops. If I didn't use Google Maps I'm not sure what I would do. For those that don't know already, HR is an area that utilizes Google Maps and publishes departures online. You don't have to wait in the rain and the snow. But the bus has to come on time, and the driver has to stop and pick up passengers, for it to work.
Where are the articulated buses, and why don't we have multiple buses during peak times on a route in Hampton Roads? HRT isn't doing a good job of explaining their bulls*. At peak times you need 3 buses on a route, not one.
I agree that higher frequency would be great for heavily used routes but I don't know if there are really many heavily used routes besides the beach, base, and shipyard. Do few ride the bust because the routes are under-served and inconvenient or are the routes under-served because there is little demand and few people ride the bus? I really don't know.
I suspect most are like me though outside of certain parts of Norfolk near ODU or downtown... If it is far away I drive, if it is close I bike, I really don't have much use for the bus. The only time I even take the tide is if I know parking is gonna be a ***** for things like harbor fest or if we are gonna make multiple stops in downtown Norfolk and take the ferry to Portsmouth. It is too easy to drive into the city and parking is cheap. The only time I ride the bus is never. LOL
It is a chicken and egg scenario. I only the bus when I have to. But if the bus was frequent, I would ride it more often.
It is an atrocity. When it comes, it might stop. If the bus is full it won't stop.
In Ohio, most people drive but the buses are packed. If one bus is packed they'll send another; the driver doesn't stop regardless of whether there are passengers to pick up or not. If the second bus is packed there may be a third bus. This all happens within minutes.
I only mention this because Ohio cities are the same size as HR. Akron, Youngstown, Dayton and Canton are smaller. Columbus is the same size. Only Cleveland and Cincinnati are larger. And they all have better bus service.
In Akron and Cleveland you get articulated buses. For those that don't know, this means that you can walk from one bus into a connected bus in the rear. It feels like a subway train, but it obviously isn't.
Cleveland has Bus Rapid Transit. I still don't understand why Virginia Beach does not have this. It is not a perfect system, but these are all cheaper solutions than rail. Rail is good, but there are other things that can be found.
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