Virginia Beach rolling towards light rail while opposition grows

[JeffConn]

Originally Posted by Spazkat9696

As much a it pains me to agree with coconut, I have to. The light rail is a huge waste that will never go anywhere. This region doesn't have the nessary unity. Think about how crappy the bus service is. The light rail is nothing more than a money sucking novelty. It reminds me of the maglev at ODU. Nothing but a money sucking monster.

The ODU Maglev was a scam pure and simple. The company built the tracks without knowing if they had the right technology to get the monorail working. And now some folks in VB want to trust the exact same people to put a Maglev in VB instead of light rail. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

[LM117]

A judge approved an anti-light rail petition from John Atkinson's group, "No Light Rail Virginia Beach". Looks like the referendum might be headed to the ballot in November. The referendum would read "Should City Council of Virginia Beach spend local funds to extend light rail from Norfolk to Town Center in Virginia Beach?".

Judge approves anti-light rail petition | WAVY-TV

[goofy328]

Virginia Beach is never going to get light rail. Never.

Now, I would like to see it happen myself. But I'm not holding my breath.

Someone mentioned Brooklyn, NY in the article quoted by the OP. As if that would ever happen here. That borough has 170 subway stations. There are 17 different lines that go throughout the area. And it is 1/6 of the size of Virginia Beach. Forget about what they have going on in Brooklyn.

What I don't understand, is why this area can't have an elevated line, like they do in Chicago, or Atlanta, or bury the line in parts of the city while it is elevated in others, say like Baltimore or Washington DC? If we can build tunnels here we could bury the train in some parts of the metro but the time, money, and resources needed to completely bury the line; its just not feasible in this area.

We're talking light rail, either at surface or elevated, at a tremendous cost that no one wants to approach, going through Virginia Beach, an enormous city of almost 500 square miles. And absolutely no one wants to pay for this, and I can't say that I can blame them. At least 50 to 100 billion dollars, to do it the right way and adequately cover the area.

This area is so far behind the curve on rail it is going to take a good 150 years before it gets built out throughout this metro. I'm not just talking about the actual construction, but acquiring the land, transportation studies, possible eminent domain, purchasing the cars. And all while traffic continues to get worse while the area grows vertically.

How long would it take to make a return on the investment on connecting the existing line all the way out to the Oceanfront? The best the city could hope for, is to remove the inner lanes of these enormous, 6 to 8 lane arterial roads that go throughout the city and route light rail at surface level, or, do the same on 264. That is the only way minimal disruption to life could occur bringing light rail to Virginia Beach. Traffic would be hell on those roads for a good 5, 10, maybe 15 years but at least it would help pedestrians travel those roads without having to sit in traffic.

The other conundrum is connecting the Southside to the Peninsula. I'd wager that will happen before we get decent intercity rail here. Those are the types of projects that actually get done. We'll probably get a rail connection between the Southside and the Peninsula before we get a third automobile crossing. I'd go as far as to suggest that one of the reasons, among others, that we don't have a third automobile crossing is because of plans to include a rail crossing in said automobile crossing or, simply build a tunnel for no other purpose but rail. That should be cheaper than wasting money on yet another, one lane in each direction, someone's car breaks down in the tunnel, cross your fingers you don't have to deal with smoke inhalation, automobile crossing between the areas. And it might be cheaper on both sides of the water because they could just create a huge park and ride, rather than integrating the line with transportation in the region. Maybe a huge traffic garage like they have in Atlanta. No traffic bottlenecks getting off of that crossing.

[Spazkat9696]

Just looking at the intersection of Independence and VAB Blvd should explain why light rail won't work here. This area is not walkable. It was not designed to be walkable. The roads are way to wide. Until it is more convenient to ride than drive it will never work. Right now it's just a big money suck.

[Spazkat9696]

Originally Posted by goofy328

Virginia Beach is never going to get light rail. Never.

Now, I would like to see it happen myself. But I'm not holding my breath.

Someone mentioned Brooklyn, NY in the article quoted by the OP. As if that would ever happen here. That borough has 170 subway stations. There are 17 different lines that go throughout the area. And it is 1/6 of the size of Virginia Beach. Forget about what they have going on in Brooklyn.

What I don't understand, is why this area can't have an elevated line, like they do in Chicago, or Atlanta, or bury the line in parts of the city while it is elevated in others, say like Baltimore or Washington DC? If we can build tunnels here we could bury the train in some parts of the metro but the time, money, and resources needed to completely bury the line; its just not feasible in this area.

We're talking light rail, either at surface or elevated, at a tremendous cost that no one wants to approach, going through Virginia Beach, an enormous city of almost 500 square miles. And absolutely no one wants to pay for this, and I can't say that I can blame them. At least 50 to 100 billion dollars, to do it the right way and adequately cover the area.

This area is so far behind the curve on rail it is going to take a good 150 years before it gets built out throughout this metro. I'm not just talking about the actual construction, but acquiring the land, transportation studies, possible eminent domain, purchasing the cars. And all while traffic continues to get worse while the area grows vertically.

How long would it take to make a return on the investment on connecting the existing line all the way out to the Oceanfront? The best the city could hope for, is to remove the inner lanes of these enormous, 6 to 8 lane arterial roads that go throughout the city and route light rail at surface level, or, do the same on 264. That is the only way minimal disruption to life could occur bringing light rail to Virginia Beach. Traffic would be hell on those roads for a good 5, 10, maybe 15 years but at least it would help pedestrians travel those roads without having to sit in traffic.

The other conundrum is connecting the Southside to the Peninsula. I'd wager that will happen before we get decent intercity rail here. Those are the types of projects that actually get done. We'll probably get a rail connection between the Southside and the Peninsula before we get a third automobile crossing. I'd go as far as to suggest that one of the reasons, among others, that we don't have a third automobile crossing is because of plans to include a rail crossing in said automobile crossing or, simply build a tunnel for no other purpose but rail. That should be cheaper than wasting money on yet another, one lane in each direction, someone's car breaks down in the tunnel, cross your fingers you don't have to deal with smoke inhalation, automobile crossing between the areas. And it might be cheaper on both sides of the water because they could just create a huge park and ride, rather than integrating the line with transportation in the region. Maybe a huge traffic garage like they have in Atlanta. No traffic bottlenecks getting off of that crossing.

But unless they have a way to get from the garage to their destination it's a no go.

[goofy328]

Originally Posted by Spazkat9696

But unless they have a way to get from the garage to their destination it's a no go.

Well I don't know what they'll do but in Atlanta its right there, as is the case in DC. I'm not sure why they would build it any differently here but you never know. You can't even get the parking lots of adjacent businesses connected in this area. But I understand what you're saying. If anyone has a choice they'll stay in their car. The only thing that is going to change that is a million transients that cannot afford a car, or do not want one. Locals, most certainly, are not getting out of their car if they do not have to.