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First, hello to all. Given the title of this, I will begin by saying that I have not just "moved in" and am simply ranting and raving because I am out of my element. I have been paying a mortgage here in Norfolk going on 6 years now.
Recently, I came home to discover a city fine in the mailbox because "your trash cans are not 5 feet behind the property line". A few days later, to my puzzlement, I notice a violation on my car (I own the title) which has been sitting in my driveway for a few months due to engine troubles. I admit that I did allow the tags to expire because the vehicle is incapacitated at the moment. However, I was unaware that the city could still fine you for a vehicle in your own driveway. It doesn't leak oil or fluids, it is not a rustbucket, and it is not an eyesore. It just sits in my driveway, in my cul-de-sac, bothering no one. I called the number left on the notice with no answer. I put a car cover over the car in hopes this would alleviate the issue until I could get to the DMV. Two days later, it is towed while I am at work. I return to a missing vehicle, and my car cover thrown carelessly in my yard.
I could see if I was a social misfit and had foot-high grass, empty beer cans, and rusted car parts strewn about my yard like some backwater hillbilly... My yard is not dirty. I do not have wild parties. I stay out of my neighbors' business. Heck, I barely invite people over. Was I technically in the wrong according to law? Yes I was. Yet, I have lived in several different parts of the country and this is the only place thus far in which I have been fined numerous times for the most petty offenses imaginable, and it is not just me. My neighbors have been as well. As quickly as my car was towed off, you would have thought it was full of illegal immigrants and the trunk full of drugs.
In closing of this "polite rant", I would just like to say that I do enjoy Hampton Roads overall. But, I am seriously considering moving outside Norfolk for good. I have sorely learned my "lesson", yet even after all this I still find it simply maddening that this place requires you to register, inspect, and pay taxes on a vehicle that doesn't run. Moreover, they can literally abduct your property from your own house. I have spoken to numerous people who live in Virginia Beach, Suffolk, etc. who say they don't have these problems with the city constantly spying on their neighborhood. So, is it just me? Or do you other folks out there have these same problems?
We live in Hampton and my father has had quite a few fines for a vehicle that is parked in our yard behind a fence. I think it's more the "Commonwealth" than the actual city.
We live in Hampton and my father has had quite a few fines for a vehicle that is parked in our yard behind a fence. I think it's more the "Commonwealth" than the actual city.
You reminded me of something else I learned during this. Apparently the city has the authority to rip your fence down to tow away the vehicle in question. I didn't believe it at first, but after this debacle, I wouldn't put it past them.
On a side note, I find it ironic that if I was delinquent on several car payments, I would have been given more time before it was towed than what the city gave me for a lousy inspection sticker. Go figure.
My advice would be to battle the ticket. In the state of Virginia, there is nothing wrong with having a parked car with out-of-date stickers on private property, unless the ticketing officer witnesses you on the roadway. This Washington Post article details a Virginia Supreme Court ruling that detailed a very similar situation in Prince William County, but this gentleman was parked on a parking lot for his apartment complex:
"A three-judge panel in Alexandria went even further than Eberth had imagined, ruling that Prince William had no authority to ticket vehicles with expired inspection stickers parked on private -- or public -- property. The ruling by Judge Robert J. Humphreys said state law prohibits only the operation of a vehicle with an expired inspection sticker, casting doubt on whether police anywhere in Virginia can ticket parked vehicles with expired stickers."
It sounds even more clear cut in your case because it sounds like you were on a private lot, and not a public parking lot as Eberth was. I'm sure regardless of what you decide to do, just pay the fines and towing bill and be done with it, or contest it all in court, it sounds like if it's something you have the will to fight, the law is on your side. That is assuming you accurately described the situation and didn't leave anything out.
There are zoning inspectors in other areas and yes, if your neighbors call zoning, they will investigate. It doesn't sound like the city of Norfolk was picking on you, it sounds like someone called in a complaint.
It sounds even more clear cut in your case because it sounds like you were on a private lot, and not a public parking lot as Eberth was. I'm sure regardless of what you decide to do, just pay the fines and towing bill and be done with it, or contest it all in court, it sounds like if it's something you have the will to fight, the law is on your side.
Well I have been reading through the city zoning codes, which is a real joy let me tell you. I don't see anything yet that technically allows me to get out of this. I did have to chuckle reading that story. Did you notice, though, that they said officials are drafting new legislation so they can start issuing fines again. The victory will probably be short lived. They aren't going to miss out on that lucrative fine income.
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There are zoning inspectors in other areas and yes, if your neighbors call zoning, they will investigate. It doesn't sound like the city of Norfolk was picking on you, it sounds like someone called in a complaint.
I thought it might be one of the neighbors snitching on me, but they got tickets and notices too for various things. Like I said before, I rarely talk to my neighbors other than "hello, how are you" type of stuff. If it was, I would be very disappointed, because that means one of them had to come snooping in my driveway over something that is none of their business. No, I think the city just likes roaming through this area. Apparently it is paying them well.
My advice would be to battle the ticket. In the state of Virginia, there is nothing wrong with having a parked car with out-of-date stickers on private property, unless the ticketing officer witnesses you on the roadway. This Washington Post article details a Virginia Supreme Court ruling that detailed a very similar situation in Prince William County, but this gentleman was parked on a parking lot for his apartment complex:
"A three-judge panel in Alexandria went even further than Eberth had imagined, ruling that Prince William had no authority to ticket vehicles with expired inspection stickers parked on private -- or public -- property. The ruling by Judge Robert J. Humphreys said state law prohibits only the operation of a vehicle with an expired inspection sticker, casting doubt on whether police anywhere in Virginia can ticket parked vehicles with expired stickers."
It sounds even more clear cut in your case because it sounds like you were on a private lot, and not a public parking lot as Eberth was. I'm sure regardless of what you decide to do, just pay the fines and towing bill and be done with it, or contest it all in court, it sounds like if it's something you have the will to fight, the law is on your side. That is assuming you accurately described the situation and didn't leave anything out.
I have researched the local zoning laws in depth and yes it is true Norfolk can not issue someone a ticket for expired inspection on private property and this did not happen in the OP's case....The OP was given a notice of violation for an inoperable/abandoned vehicle sitting on private property. The City charter gives the city inspectors/Police Officers this right. The code reads that any vehicle that is inoperable or has expired state inspection and expired state tags can not be placed upon residential private property. If a violation is found a notice of violation is given and the owner has 48 hours to either correct the violations or have the vehicle removed. After 48 hours the city has the right to enter upon your property and have the vehicle removed (towed)
On city property even less is needed, if a vehicle that is parked on city property is deemed inoperable or the vehicle has expired tags or either expired inspection (only one of the two is needed) it is in violation and a notice is given but normally the window given is 72 hours before the vehicle is towed.
Now getting back to my first statement....can the city issue a summons(ticket) for having an abandoned/inoperable vehicle sitting on your on property...yes they can....If a notice of violation was given and the vehicle was not removed or corrected by the owner the city will come out to remove the vehicle, if the tow truck driver can not safely remove the vehicle, because the owner was foolish enough to try and block the vehicle in with other vehicles or I have even heard stories where some owners have chained the vehicle to their house etc, in an attempt to stop the city from taking their vehicle...
Now the city has the right to move those vehicles or cut and locks etc to get to the vehicle in question but most times the inspector or Police Officer will just laugh off the owners foolishness and either obtain a warrant for your arrest or issue you a misdemeanor summons for the violation under the city code of "failure to remove a nuisance vehicle" so either way the city is going to win this battle.
Now are the other cities as bad as Norfolk, I think Va Bch is, in fact I think the Beach is worse, the Beach has of a lot of neighborhoods that fall under Home Owner Association rules and regulations and they can be worse then the city zoning laws....I live in a neighborhood that has an HOA board and although I love my neighborhood I will never live in another neighborhood that has an HOA...many of these people that are on the board I think are on some type of power trip and like to think they are playing God and will send out notices for very minor violations and will call the city for a follow up every chance they get....
A few summers ago a neighbor down the street wanted to put in an above ground pool, now the HOA rules for my neighborhood clearly states that all pools must be in-ground and the site plans must first be approved by the HOA board, (trust me I know I had to submit 3 different site plans before one was approved so I could put in my pool) well the neighbor blew the HOA board off and put in the above ground pool, the HOA took him to court and he lost and had to remove the pool......thats life living in the big city.....You have to live by the rules that are out there or either move and find a place that dont have such rules and regulations
I have researched the local zoning laws in depth and yes it is true Norfolk can not issue someone a ticket for expired inspection on private property and this did not happen in the OP's case....The OP was given a notice of violation for an inoperable/abandoned vehicle sitting on private property. The City charter gives the city inspectors/Police Officers this right. The code reads that any vehicle that is inoperable or has expired state inspection and expired state tags can not be placed upon residential private property. If a violation is found a notice of violation is given and the owner has 48 hours to either correct the violations or have the vehicle removed. After 48 hours the city has the right to enter upon your property and have the vehicle removed (towed)
On city property even less is needed, if a vehicle that is parked on city property is deemed inoperable or the vehicle has expired tags or either expired inspection (only one of the two is needed) it is in violation and a notice is given but normally the window given is 72 hours before the vehicle is towed.
I was not claiming that the OP was not out of bounds according to the City Code. I was claiming that the city code that allows such action would probably be overturned if the OP took the case to the Virginia Court of Appeals. It matters not if it's an out-of-date inspection sticker or sticker on the license plate. They have no way of knowing that the vehicle is truly inoperable/abandoned, especially of the OP is working on getting it repaired, and judging that by an out-of-date sticker is not a logical basis.
You reminded me of something else I learned during this. Apparently the city has the authority to rip your fence down to tow away the vehicle in question. I didn't believe it at first, but after this debacle, I wouldn't put it past them.
That's absolutely true. My father went through the same thing as you back in the 80's. He had a 71 Baracuda he was restoring at the time, his neighbors complained because of the car parts he left on his driveway, so he received a notice. He moved everything to his backyard, which was fenced in, and they still go to it. They didn't tear down the fence though - they set up ramps so they could drag the car OVER the fence. This wasn't Norfolk, however. It was Va Beach. Ridiculous.
We live in Hampton and my father has had quite a few fines for a vehicle that is parked in our yard behind a fence. I think it's more the "Commonwealth" than the actual city.
Well, you'll be happy to know that we're MUCH more laid-back here in Scranton. Life just moves a bit slower up North I guess.
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