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It all depends on what you compare it to. I believe LoveAutumn is from California--it makes sense that she would find it reasonable compared to whatever city she lives in there. Since you apparently think it's unreasonable, what cities are you comparing Virginia Beach to?
Philadelphia, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Atlanta, Jacksonville, the Miami suburbs, New Orleans, just about any decent sized city in Texas, Oklahoma City, Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Boise, Des Moines, Wichita, Charlotte, Raleigh, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Cleveland, Nashville, Lexington, Louisville, Phoenix......it goes on and on.
Philadelphia, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Atlanta, Jacksonville, the Miami suburbs, New Orleans, just about any decent sized city in Texas, Oklahoma City, Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Boise, Des Moines, Wichita, Charlotte, Raleigh, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Cleveland, Nashville, Lexington, Louisville, Phoenix......it goes on and on.
Great list! Tomorrow when I have time, we will look at each of these cities, the realistic COL for each one, and whether or not it would be more desirable for retirees than Virginia Beach. It may take me a while to crunch the figures, but would be an interesting and worthwhile exercise. Do you have a specific city in Texas that you'd like me to use? How about a specific suburb of Miami?
It may take me a few days to do the actual cost comparisons. In the meantime, I posted this list on the Retirement Forum to get comments from fellow seniors who are familiar with these cities, the reality of the COL there, and the desirability of living there from the point of view of a retiree. This ought to be an interesting challenge (and who knows, we might be steered to a better choice, if indeed one of these cities does turn out to be more likely to attract the upcoming wave of retirees.)
I still think that Hampton Roads is going to end up attracting a large wave of retirees in the next 20 years--but I'm open to being talked out of this prediction if we can find reasons it wouldn't be likely.
Great list! Tomorrow when I have time, we will look at each of these cities, the realistic COL for each one, and whether or not it would be more desirable for retirees than Virginia Beach. It may take me a while to crunch the figures, but would be an interesting and worthwhile exercise. Do you have a specific city in Texas that you'd like me to use? How about a specific suburb of Miami?
Many of those wouldnt be that desirable for retirees due to some combination of crime and weather, but the COL is lower than Virginia Beach.
As for suburbs of Miami, you want to stay in Broward County, maybe Davie
If you have a problem with the crime in Va Beach though, the suburbs of Miami probably arent for you, since most are fairly close to the national average in crime rate, and much higher than Virginia Beach. Also, if you have a problem with a great deal of diversity, South Florida isnt for you.
However, I can promise you, there are plenty of retirees every where, and there are huge pockets of them down there, where practically whole neighborhoods/condos/complexes are filled with them, and you see nothing but retirees at nearby stores and establishments. We actually ran in to one of those, although Im not quite sure where it was. I think it was somewhere in Hollywood or Aventura (//www.city-data.com/city/Aventura-Florida.html), on the Atlantic Ocean. Aventura is very high dollar for the most part, and not one of the suburbs I would call affordable though, but Hollywood still has affordable decent areas.
Many of those wouldnt be that desirable for retirees due to some combination of crime and weather, but the COL is lower than Virginia Beach.
Yes, that ends up being the conclusion that many people make. I think when people say the COL is reasonable, what they mean is "reasonable compared to other cities that I might find desirable to live in". Cleveland, for example, is a lovely town with a low COL but the weather is just not good for retirees (unless they've always lived in weather like that) so it's not a place you would consider when gauging what is and is not a reasonable COL.
Other towns may not be as inexpensive as you think. I've lived in Miami, and even though you might be able to pick up a foreclosure down there for a song there were other factors that made the COL fairly high. Groceries were outrageously expensive there. Doctor visits are pricey and you'll get a hefty bill afterwards because the insurance company will refuse to cover the full charge the doctors ask. Our utility bill went through the roof. And insurance? If you can get (not that easy these days) the bill will shock you. Plus, the crime and violence in south Florida scares off a lot of people. There's no way I would ever consider living there again, although some people love it.
At any rate, this is a good exercise. And, you never know where it might lead.
I still think that Hampton Roads is going to end up attracting a large wave of retirees in the next 20 years--but I'm open to being talked out of this prediction if we can find reasons it wouldn't be likely.
I can list several reasons
1. The weather isnt that great for a retiree spot. We still have 4 seasons, and we still do get occassional snow. Retirees coming from the NE generally want to avoid winter conditions of all types
2. When comparing housing costs, this place is not appealing to anyone outside of the most wealthy of retiree.
3. The infrastructure is decaying, and the roads and interstates were poorly planned. We also lack reliable public transportation.
4. The area is youthful and transient. Retirees like stability.
5. When combined, the taxes in Hampton Roads are very high. We have things, such as meal tax, that are unheard of in other areas.
6. Virginia is not a friendly state as far as income tax is concerned. Retirees have preference for places without income taxes of any kind.
7. Our available medical care is a joke. We dont have world class anything, unless you count reproductive medicine. We have nothing like the University of Miami, Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami, or the Cleveland Clinic in Weston, FL, The Delray Medical Center in Delray Beach, FL (about an hour north of downtown Miami) or Duke University Hospital in Raleigh, or even the Gaston Memorial Hospital in Gastonia outside of Charlotte. It is well known that you have to go to Duke or Johns Hopkins in Baltimore if you want any kind of decent medical care.
1. The weather isnt that great for a retiree spot. We still have 4 seasons, and we still do get occassional snow. Retirees coming from the NE generally want to avoid winter conditions of all types
I think you're making an assumption about how retirees from the NE generally feel--and you're also assuming that retirees to VA only come from the NE. Read the Retirement Forum, and you will learn differently.
Some retirees may wish to avoid winter conditions, but a surprising number of us prefer a 4-season climate with mild winters. Many people have medical conditions that are aggravated by weather extremes, and that includes lengthy hot summers. The mid Atlantic gets hot, but at least it's for a relatively short time. Some people think all retirees want places in Arizona, but that's not true, either. It's great for some people but many people have medical conditions that do better with a certain amount of humidity.
2. When comparing housing costs, this place is not appealing to anyone outside of the most wealthy of retiree.
Same argument as before. When you retire you need to take many factors into consideration. Housing costs are one issue, however if a community is not desirable for other reasons, the low cost of housing cost won't matter. Very few people retire to Detroit no matter how cheap the houses are there, for example.
3. The infrastructure is decaying, and the roads and interstates were poorly planned. We also lack reliable public transportation.
The same can be said for the other cities that you listed as having a low COL. Would love to hear more on this issue, however.
4. The area is youthful and transient. Retirees like stability.
The military communities are youthful and transient. Other areas seem less so, from what I can tell. Williamsburg does not seem to have this issue in the communities that appeal to retirees. Sure, the college students come and go, but that isn't a concern since we wouldn't be living among them anyway.
5. When combined, the taxes in Hampton Roads are very high. We have things, such as meal tax, that are unheard of in other areas.
Meal taxes are unheard of outside of Hampton Roads?
6. Virginia is not a friendly state as far as income tax is concerned. Retirees have preference for places without income taxes of any kind.
We do? Are you sure we feel that way? We aren't employed. Other taxes are a bigger concern, IMO. States that don't have income taxes pay the bills by increasing other taxes. Or, they cut corners and needed amenities do not exist.
7. Our available medical care is a joke. We dont have world class anything, unless you count reproductive medicine. We have nothing like the University of Miami, Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami, or the Cleveland Clinic in Weston, FL, The Delray Medical Center in Delray Beach, FL (about an hour north of downtown Miami) or Duke University Hospital in Raleigh, or even the Gaston Memorial Hospital in Gastonia outside of Charlotte. It is well known that you have to go to Duke or Johns Hopkins in Baltimore if you want any kind of decent medical care.[/quote]
I guess this one is a matter of opinion. So far I've been pleased with the reviews Sentara has received. Neither one of us has an exotic condition, so while those hospitals are nice we don't really need that degree of specialization. We need solid, quality care for for standard geriatric issues. Still, I wouldn't object if a top notch hospital were to open in the area. Hmmm... maybe I'll even add that to my list of predictions. It seems like something that could happen in 50 or so years. Meanwhile, from the research I've done so far, the local hospitals get good reviews for the care we need. And, more important to us, we hear that local doctors take Medicare.
As an FYI, I derive over half of my income from retirees that choose Williamsburg and Hampton Roads for retirement. I have had very few clients decide to move away in the last 10 years. All seem very happy with the choice. To the contrary, many had chosen and moved to other places for retirement. After retiring to Florida, North & South Carolina, etc for a number of years they then decided that they preferred our area, climate, culture to their previous choice.
I think you're making an assumption about how retirees from the NE generally feel--and you're also assuming that retirees to VA only come from the NE. Read the Retirement Forum, and you will learn differently.
Im not assuming that retirees only come from the NE, Im assuming that only retirees from the NE would be interested in here in the first place, because thats one of the few areas that might actually see a reduction in COL if they moved here. I supposed someone from CA or the Northwest might come here, but Id find it odd that they bipassed much closer and better options, such as Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada and Texas
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Originally Posted by Caladium
Same argument as before. When you retire you need to take many factors into consideration. Housing costs are one issue, however if a community is not desirable for other reasons, the low cost of housing cost won't matter. Very few people retire to Detroit no matter how cheap the houses are there, for example.
Retirees do have to take many things in to account, but the one thing that is not very negotiable for most is budget. You could possibly live in more crime than youd like, or a worse climate, or worse medical care, but you cant spend more money than you have.
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Originally Posted by Caladium
The same can be said for the other cities that you listed as having a low COL. Would love to hear more on this issue, however.
Very few of the cities I listed have as bad of public transportation system as Hampton Roads. In fact, out of the top 40 MSA's of which Hampton Roads ranks 36, very few of them are completely dependent on buses (our light rail is a joke), and nearly all either have over 50 miles of light rail, an extensive subway system, or both (some are heavily invested and moving forward with major systems such as Houston). Even the ones that are dependent on buses (such as Charlotte), have a much larger, modern, and better maintained fleet. The Charlotte MSA only has 100k more people, yet, has almost 200 more buses, and 30k more daily passengers. Even areas that have comparitable sized fleets, are using them more effectively, such as the Central Ohio Transit Authority, around Columbus, OH, which gets 10k more riders a day out of the same fleet.
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Originally Posted by Caladium
Meal taxes are unheard of outside of Hampton Roads?
They are heard of, but are usually reserved for areas that are highly dependent on tourism. As a result, most people who come here are surprised to see all these different taxes smacked on to things.
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Originally Posted by Caladium
We do? Are you sure we feel that way? We aren't employed. Other taxes are a bigger concern, IMO. States that don't have income taxes pay the bills by increasing other taxes. Or, they cut corners and needed amenities do not exist.
Unless you are just draining down a bank account, you are getting income from some where, and its being taxed.
By the way, states that dont have income tax usually collect it in property tax. That can be mitigated several ways, renting for one, or spending less on a house.
You cant mitigate income tax at all.
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Originally Posted by Caladium
I guess this one is a matter of opinion. So far I've been pleased with the reviews Sentara has received.
This is a matter of national rankings, so its a bit more than "opinion". None of Sentaras gaggle of garbage ever has, or ever will, make a top 100 list of hospitals for anything.
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Originally Posted by Caladium
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Originally Posted by Caladium
Neither one of us has an exotic condition, so while those hospitals are nice we don't really need that degree of specialization. We need solid, quality care for for standard geriatric issues.
You are not the poster child for retirees. Many retirees DO have things wrong with them, that require better care than some half rate regional monopolistic facility can provide, and at very least, are concerned about developing those problems within their retirement years.
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Originally Posted by Caladium
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Originally Posted by Caladium
Still, I wouldn't object if a top notch hospital were to open in the area. Hmmm... maybe I'll even add that to my list of predictions. It seems like something that could happen in 50 or so years.
Why would this ever happen? Sentara has no motivation being a virtual monopoly, and even our 63rd ranked medical school grads have no motivation to stay around here in an area depressed by government dependents.
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