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Old 08-13-2009, 08:06 AM
 
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The westbound tube flooded during Isabel, and the east bound tube flooded yesterday. Didn't they upgrade the tunnel after Isabel? Doesn't it have flood gates? If so why weren't they closed? If not the clearly the tunnel needs better pumps. Also, I don't understand why traffic was not stopped sooner. I saw pictures of cars driving through, and the water looked really high. Seems V-DOT learned nothing from the tunnel flooding during Isabel. Actually there seems to be a lot of tunnel flooding going around lately.
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
The westbound tube flooded during Isabel, and the east bound tube flooded yesterday. Didn't they upgrade the tunnel after Isabel? Doesn't it have flood gates? If so why weren't they closed? If not the clearly the tunnel needs better pumps. Also, I don't understand why traffic was not stopped sooner. I saw pictures of cars driving through, and the water looked really high. Seems V-DOT learned nothing from the tunnel flooding during Isabel. Actually there seems to be a lot of tunnel flooding going around lately.

Well it was the midtown tunnel that flooded during Isabel not the downtown tunnel but I agree VDOT needs to do a better job, but don't look for that to happen anytime soon ...heck VDOT just had massive layoffs due to the economy so now fewer people are having to do a larger amount of work (that never works out well)........ but yesterday was an unusual event with over 5 inches of rain falling in a short period of time I don't think any drainage system could of kept of with that amount of rain...just look at the amount of flooding that also occurred in downtown Norfolk and Portsmouth.....There were still vehicles all over the place this morning sitting where they had flooded out yesterday....Just another clue that if a hurricane ever does head this way you better be long gone from this area before it gets here
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Land of Thought and Flow
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This is VDOT we're talking about. Common sense isn't exactly common with them.

But don't worry, it'll get worse:55% of the statewide structure inventory is approaching the end of its anticipated service design life. Add that to the budget problems over the past few years and you've got a recipe for disaster. Interesting to mention, while the number of roads (bridges, interstate) that have gone bad is relatively low in comparison to other districts, if you go by square-footage of "bad road", Hampton Roads has about 20% of the entire state's functionally obsolete structures.

Overall, VDOT's performance is pretty bad. Especially when you read how poor they're upkeeping potholes (in all areas, not just ours). All of the information is online, I would suggest reading through State of Pavement and State of Structures and Bridges.

Sorry if this got way off topic, it's just that the problems we're having seem to stem from a number of issues. All I can suggest is that we write letters, send emails, etc to our representatives about how to fix our traffic issues. It's sad that even closing a single direction of a tunnel can (and will) completely destroy traffic.

But, I can't complain too much - my teacher was stuck in Portsmouth, so we got out of class early.


And I agree with rtandc, this does indeed show that we're hosed if a hurricane comes through. I realize that five inches in a short period of time is bad... but you really can't compare that to the flooding of Downtown Norfolk. Downtown Norfolk will flood if somebody even sneezes the wrong way.
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Va Beach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rita Mordio View Post
And I agree with rtandc, this does indeed show that we're hosed if a hurricane comes through. I realize that five inches in a short period of time is bad... but you really can't compare that to the flooding of Downtown Norfolk. Downtown Norfolk will flood if somebody even sneezes the wrong way.
thank goodness we have a few days notice to leave huh
Apparently, the stimulus VA got for their roads to be repaired does not include the tunnels for some reason.
The midtown tunnel flooded only because the valves were never maintained for the flood gates...people were fired over that, the dummies.
wonder if this group is maintaining the tunnels:

Transportation: Public Works - The City of Norfolk, VA (http://www.norfolk.gov/PublicWorks/trans.asp - broken link)
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Old 08-13-2009, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach/Norfolk.
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Downtown is below sea level.
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Old 08-13-2009, 09:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by rtandc View Post
Well it was the midtown tunnel that flooded during Isabel not the downtown tunnel but I agree VDOT needs to do a better job, but don't look for that to happen anytime soon ...heck VDOT just had massive layoffs due to the economy so now fewer people are having to do a larger amount of work (that never works out well)........ but yesterday was an unusual event with over 5 inches of rain falling in a short period of time I don't think any drainage system could of kept of with that amount of rain...just look at the amount of flooding that also occurred in downtown Norfolk and Portsmouth.....There were still vehicles all over the place this morning sitting where they had flooded out yesterday....Just another clue that if a hurricane ever does head this way you better be long gone from this area before it gets here

Actually the downtown tunnel was closed too. Here is a link to the article. I'm not paying to see it because. I was there. Trust me it was closed. It was reopened a lot sooner than the midtown tunnel, but still. I just wonder why they didn't close the gates to prevent the flooding when they saw what was happening.


THE PILOT HAS TUNNEL VISION ON TOLL ISSUE.(LOCAL)(Letter to the...
[SIZE=-1]Pay-Per-View - Virginian-Pilot - HighBeam Research[SIZE=-1] - Sep 4, 2003[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The Midtown Tunnel will be closed at...westbound lanes of the Downtown Tunnel were closed late...Water rushed into the Midtown Tunnel around 4 p.m., ... [/SIZE]
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Old 08-13-2009, 10:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
Actually the downtown tunnel was closed too. Here is a link to the article. I'm not paying to see it because. I was there. Trust me it was closed. It was reopened a lot sooner than the midtown tunnel, but still. I just wonder why they didn't close the gates to prevent the flooding when they saw what was happening.


THE PILOT HAS TUNNEL VISION ON TOLL ISSUE.(LOCAL)(Letter to the...
[SIZE=-1]Pay-Per-View - Virginian-Pilot - HighBeam Research[SIZE=-1] - Sep 4, 2003[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The Midtown Tunnel will be closed at...westbound lanes of the Downtown Tunnel were closed late...Water rushed into the Midtown Tunnel around 4 p.m., ... [/SIZE]
Ok... one it takes about two hours to close the flood gate at the midtown tunnel....also the flood gate is not there to stop rainwater but is there to stop the over flow of water from the Elizabeth river due to higher then normal tides during a storm as the ground level is very low on the Norfolk side of the tunnel..

Two, the midtown tunnel only has one flood gate and that is on the Norfolk side, there is not a gate on the Portsmouth side of the tunnel due to the higher ground level...........

Yesterdays flooding at the downtown tunnel was caused by rainwater and poor drainage pumps not able to keep up with the amount of rain that fell in a short period of time...the downtown tunnel does not have floodgates they can close anyway

It was not flooding during Isabel that caused the downtown tunnel to close for awhile it was because of high winds and unsafe driving conditions....

The Monitor Merrimac Bridge-Tunnel, the Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel, the James River Bridge, the Coleman Bridge, the Downtown Tunnel and the High Rise Bridge, closure decisions are based on the onset of 45 mile per hour winds when a storm is heading toward Virginia per VDOT....The other local bridges like the Chesapeake Bay bridge tunnel are not controlled by VDOT and set their own restrictions and guidelines on when to close


This link may provide you will a little info
http://www.vdem.virginia.gov/newsroom/events/pdf/Keys_Talbot_public_transit.pdf (broken link)

Last edited by rtandc; 08-13-2009 at 10:59 AM..
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Old 08-13-2009, 11:01 AM
 
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So then why was it still closed the day after?? That's when we were stuck.

Thanks for explaining about the flood gates, I'm sure you meant that information to be conveyed in a nice way, I had no idea it took so long to close them. I figured it would take about 10 minutes. Which is why I though closing them would have helped keep water from entering the tunnel. I guess I thought of them as over sized garage doors.
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Old 08-13-2009, 11:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
So then why was it still closed the day after?? That's when we were stuck.

Thanks for explaining about the flood gates, I'm sure you meant that information to be conveyed in a nice way, I had no idea it took so long to close them. I figured it would take about 10 minutes. Which is why I though closing them would have helped keep water from entering the tunnel. I guess I thought of them as over sized garage doors.
It has been too many years to remember but I think the late opening also had something to do with some electrical issues at the tunnel and possible structure damage at the Berkley bridge .......Heck not many places in Hampton Roads had power after Isabel....so again when a major hurricane hits here this place will be on lock down for months so if you want to get out of this area you better get out early because this was the scary part of a simple tropical storm hitting here.........and we are just talking about one city...Norfolk

Over 98% of the city was without power
•90% of traffic signals were out
•1,250 people were in Norfolk shelters
•3 of 4 acute care hospitals were on generator power
•All 54 Schools closed for 7 days due to loss of power
•Damage assessment was in excess of $84 million
•1,000,000 cubic yards of debris required removal
•1,642 buildings sustained structural damage
•17 building were a total loss

For Norfolk Isabel was only a strong tropical storm with sustained winds of 54 MPH and gusts to 75 MPH

Last edited by rtandc; 08-13-2009 at 11:19 AM..
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