Will you ride light rail? (Virginia Beach, Norfolk: schools, subsidized, utilities)

[rtandc]

Originally Posted by vdogg

Va. Beach is just as crime ridden as Norfolk is. I love people that think Va. Beach is just some perfect utopia or small town. There are a lot of people in this area. Any time you have that, you have crime. This reminds me of when we first tried to get rail at the Beach, but the council was against it because they didn't want "that element" coming into their town. Hmm...I wonder what could be meant by "that element"?

I get a good laugh when people post remarks like this.....Va Bch is not as crime ridden as Norfolk.....sure the beach has crime every city does but it is nothing number wise compared to the city of Norfolk....Remember Norfolk only has around 250K people and Va Bch has around 450K....And Norfolks crime numbers are normally twice as high as Va Bchs in almost every stat..... spend 5 minutes of your life and look at both cities crime stats and you will see what I mean......

So sure you cant get away from crime unless you live in a bubble, but what you can do is better your odds from being a victim of a crime...People on this forum are always asking about what neighborhoods or section of a certain city they should live in.....most times the replies they get are based on how safe a certain neighborhood is.......low crime and good schools will always be the two most important and often asked questions when someone is looking to move somewhere new.

[rtandc]

Originally Posted by Emrak

I'm late to this conversation and am certainly not going back through all the posts to find out what's what but...this one made me laugh out loud.

I mean, I can see people being concerned about pollution or noise or something like that in relation to light rail...but crime? Really? I mean, REALLY? hahahaha Think about it folks, if it was this lightning rod of crime don't you think it would have ended after the very first city gave it a try? Everywhere you look, once a city reaches a certain population threshold some form of rail transit appears, so there must be a tangible benefit to it.

I remember one episode of that NPR lady's show at lunch time. Cathy Lewis. She had some traffic engineers on and was discussing transportation issues. I don't think light rail was even mentioned, but I do remember one fact an engineer raised. He said that there's a critical point that's reached with regard to cars on the road, and that if you could remove something like 8% of the cars on HR roads at rush hour, then you would reduce traffic congestion by 33%.

Hey, if light rail can accomplish that then I'm all for it and would eternally praise the politicians who managed to get it off the ground.

Good reply but check out the local web sites for light rail and listen to the local political leaders in both Norfolk and Va Bch, they have stated many times that light rail will have little to no effect on the local traffic flow even if the starter line is continued into Va Bch....I think that is the biggest hurdle that light rail is facing......why spend the money that most cities and states dont have at this time on something that will have no positive effect on the traffic flow

[cityboi757]

Originally Posted by rtandc

Good reply but check out the local web sites for light rail and listen to the local political leaders in both Norfolk and Va Bch, they have stated many times that light rail will have little to no effect on the local traffic flow even if the starter line is continued into Va Bch....I think that is the biggest hurdle that light rail is facing......why spend the money that most cities and states dont have at this time on something that will have no positive effect on the traffic flow

No, they have said that the STARTER line won't help traffic flow

You honestly don't think light rail from the Naval Station to downtown Norfolk to the Virginia Beach Town Center the Oceanfront, Greenbrier, up to Newport News, Hampton, and Williamsburg would not fix traffic for the next century?

[Spazkat9696]

No because then you'll still have to convence people to drive to those, already traffic prone, areas to catch the train. Then they have to find a parking spot, and pay to ride a train. Sorry not appealing. Especially if you don't work within walking distance of the stop. This is not NYC, as is constantly pointed out, people aren't going to walk miles to work in the rain when they can drive in their nice warm dry car.

[cityboi757]

Originally Posted by Spazkat9696

No because then you'll still have to convence people to drive to those, already traffic prone, areas to catch the train. Then they have to find a parking spot, and pay to ride a train. Sorry not appealing. Especially if you don't work within walking distance of the stop. This is not NYC, as is constantly pointed out, people aren't going to walk miles to work in the rain when they can drive in their nice warm dry car.

Actually the rail system proposed by the Hampton Roads Transit Vision Plan has almost 400,000 people within a couple blocks to rail stations.

I hate that "This is not NY' Bull. Well DUH! But this is Hampton Roads, a major metropolitan region. You don't have to be NYC to have a regional rail system that thousands of people ride.

When traffic is at a crawl on 264, 64, 464,564 in a couple years, gas prices are at $4-$5/ gallon you don't think people would drive to the local train station and ride?

[Emrak]

Dunno how much I have to add except another small point.

I used to live off Hampton Blvd in Norfolk and getting onto base was/is a nightmare. The backup is horrible (especially if there's a supply train passing). What's also interesting is that about 75% of that base traffic lives within just a couple miles of NOB. If you had a hypothetical rail line that ran from NOB to, say, Wards Corner or Southern Shopping Center, I would bet all of next year's paychecks that there would be virtually no traffic on Hampton Blvd. What military member wouldn't choose that option? No traffic. Guaranteed on time. You wouldn't need to buy 2 cars or share a car with your spouse. In fact, to hell with all the rest of the light rail line, why hasn't Norfolk built that route already???

[Spazkat9696]

Nope!!! and that long range plan how many years away is that? Think about it there are 1.6 million people in HR now, so 400,000 people with in a couple of blocks really isn't much. How many of the 400,000 work within a few blocks of a station? In however many years it is until that long range plan materializes there will be many more people here. Most of the 400,000 people will be the ones who live in downtown Norfolk because the starter line will run through their downtown neighborhood. I just don't see it being profitable at this point branching lines out into the neighborhoods of VA Beach and Chesapeake. This is a car dependent region for a reason. The planning was not put forth in the beginning, so now we depend on cars. The cost of retrofitting in light rail to the point where people would give up their cars is so cost prohibitive I just don't see it happening. It will be a failure just like the BART.

Population of HR link (http://thevirginianpilot.com/advertising/demoLife.html - broken link)

[Spazkat9696]

Originally Posted by Emrak

Dunno how much I have to add except another small point.

I used to live off Hampton Blvd in Norfolk and getting onto base was/is a nightmare. The backup is horrible (especially if there's a supply train passing). What's also interesting is that about 75% of that base traffic lives within just a couple miles of NOB. If you had a hypothetical rail line that ran from NOB to, say, Wards Corner or Southern Shopping Center, I would bet all of next year's paychecks that there would be virtually no traffic on Hampton Blvd. What military member wouldn't choose that option? No traffic. Guaranteed on time. You wouldn't need to buy 2 cars or share a car with your spouse. In fact, to hell with all the rest of the light rail line, why hasn't Norfolk built that route already???

There will be no line on Hampton Blvd, so says the city of Norfolk!!!

[cityboi757]

Okay. This is how it all works.

LR lines are constructed. Around the stations, Transit Oriented Development sprouts up and people move to the TODs to have the convenience of being on the rail line. As more lines are built, more TODs are built. Not only does this dramatically decrease the number of cars on the highways and interstates, but counters geographic sprawl. All of the light rail stations will transform into mini population and employment centers.

This trend has already started with the construction of the Belmont @ Freemason:

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk12/baseballgrayson/Norfolk7-26194.jpg (broken link)

And the Wells Fargo Center:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk12/baseballgrayson/IMG00733.jpg?t=1261335118 (broken link)

As this trend continues, more and more people will begin to live and work on the rail line, thus improving quality of life for urban folk and the suburban folk who would like to stay in their cul-de-sacs because traffic will flow much better.

Read this:
Transit Oriented Developments « 757 Hampton Roads

Pembroke Plan (Centered around Light Rail)
Virginia Beach leaders thinking big in plans for Pembroke | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

New Town Plan (Centered around Light Rail)
Virginia Beach eyes revival near Tide light-rail station | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com (http://www.norfolk.com/2009/12/virginia-beach-eyes-revival-near-tide-lightrail-station - broken link)

Downtown 2020 (Centered around Light Rail)
Plan for 2020 reshapes city for light rail | North America > United States from AllBusiness.com (http://www.allbusiness.com/transportation/public-transportation-urban-transit/12124657-1.html - broken link)

Beach Comp. Plan (centered around Light rail)
Beach plan documents new interest in light rail | Inside Business

So yes, right now Hampton Roads is auto oriented.

But this is easily transformed by the construction of transit lines.

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by rtandc

Thugs do not commit crime in the areas where they live...what do you think they spend their day robbing their own neighbors and breaking in to their own neighbors homes and vehicles.....No they dont

Yeah they do. Neighborhoods with high crime, both violent and property, will also have high drug activity, prostitution, low income, and plenty of gang activity.

Originally Posted by rtandc

.......they go out of their neighborhoods so they have a better chance of not being known....

Bull. They stay in areas where they have the least chance of getting caught or looking suspicious. How stupid do you think a "thug" is? Do you really think they are going to go skipping into Linkhorn Estates? Some one would call the cops immediatley when they saw them.

Originally Posted by rtandc

Why do you think areas like the malls etc this time of year have such an increase of crime....because there is an increase of people....like I have stated several times in this thread, crime goes where the people go....

There is always going to be an increase in gross crime per rise in number of people. However, Id love to see your data supporting that crime RATES go up in malls that are not located in terrible areas. For instance, I wouldnt be surprised to see Military Circle Malls crime rate go up, but I would be surprised to see Pembrokes.