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View Poll Results: Will you ride rail in hampton roads?
Yes, I'll ride 59 62.77%
No, I'd never ride. 14 14.89%
I'll ride once or twice 21 22.34%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-29-2009, 03:24 PM
 
6,292 posts, read 10,559,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emrak View Post
Just a random note. All major forms of transportation are paid by our taxes. Trains would not exist, period, without government subsidies. The only keeping Amtrak afloat is Uncle Sam.

And airlines are even more heavily subsidized. Hampton Roads (and most major metropolitan areas) could never support airports without tax-payer $$$ helping them out. This is something that should be repeated: we would have no planes or trains without tax-payer cash. (and actually, now that I think of it, we wouldn't have any automobiles without that bailout last year)

So the question is not whether or not your taxes will pay for transportation, the only question is how much. I'm sure we could easily pay for it if we stopped paying for Norfolk International Airport and Newport News International Airport. Sounds nuts right? There may come a time when not paying for light rail sounds equally absurd. Just sayin'
I have no issue paying taxes for transportation. I just don't want them to be increased to pay for the light rail. Do I fly? No but I can see it has value to those who do. I just don't see the light rail as enough of a value to the area to pay for it with increased taxes. As for the auto bailout I was against that too. If a company can't make it then it should be allowed to fail. A new stronger company will step in to fill the void.
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Old 12-30-2009, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,522 posts, read 10,176,576 times
Reputation: 2572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emrak View Post
Just a random note. All major forms of transportation are paid by our taxes. Trains would not exist, period, without government subsidies. The only keeping Amtrak afloat is Uncle Sam.

And airlines are even more heavily subsidized. Hampton Roads (and most major metropolitan areas) could never support airports without tax-payer $$$ helping them out. This is something that should be repeated: we would have no planes or trains without tax-payer cash. (and actually, now that I think of it, we wouldn't have any automobiles without that bailout last year)

So the question is not whether or not your taxes will pay for transportation, the only question is how much. I'm sure we could easily pay for it if we stopped paying for Norfolk International Airport and Newport News International Airport. Sounds nuts right? There may come a time when not paying for light rail sounds equally absurd. Just sayin'

The MTA transit system of NYC, including the bus lines, covers about 70% of its operating expenses through fares and advertising. This does not include the money that is saved by eliminating traffic on the roads and associated road maintenance and construction, added smog and associated health problems, additional traffic cops and emergency workers related to traffic accidents. etc.

Dense light rail is uniquely positioned as the only major form of transportation that can pay for itself through fares and other cost savings (assuming you do not toll every single roadway, in which case, cars may be able to pay for themselves).

Hampton Roads only has two problems to light rail, and neither is that it doesnt make sense in some fashion.

One is that it is likely going to be headed by HRT which is a worthless group that will surely run it in to the ground like theyve run the bus system.

Two is that it will take years to get the public on board to ride, and many decades more to develop a very dense urban core near the rail corridors. Hampton Roads is too spread out and suburban and that will require more lines, and will lower the density of trains, and the profitability.
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:30 AM
 
1,477 posts, read 6,001,439 times
Reputation: 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by cityboi757 View Post
No, they have said that the STARTER line won't help traffic flow

You honestly don't think light rail from the Naval Station to downtown Norfolk to the Virginia Beach Town Center the Oceanfront, Greenbrier, up to Newport News, Hampton, and Williamsburg would not fix traffic for the next century?
Maybe you better read my post again, because that is exactly what I stated.......
Now you want to talk about how the traffic flow might be NEXT CENTURY.........Man that is just to far fetched to even try and talk about.....you have gone from Va Bch having light rail in 3 years to now how Tidewater might be laid out in 90+ years? Sorry but I could care less how it might be in 90 years...and I have to ask why do you care....none of us will be around to see the outcome......
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach/Norfolk.
1,565 posts, read 4,332,496 times
Reputation: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtandc View Post
Maybe you better read my post again, because that is exactly what I stated.......
Now you want to talk about how the traffic flow might be NEXT CENTURY.........Man that is just to far fetched to even try and talk about.....you have gone from Va Bch having light rail in 3 years to now how Tidewater might be laid out in 90+ years? Sorry but I could care less how it might be in 90 years...and I have to ask why do you care....none of us will be around to see the outcome......
Well, I think VB will hve light rail under construction in three years.

And some of us will be able to witness the transformation and be able to live the lifestyle of light rail one day.

In 20 years, we could have extensions to the Oceanfront, Naval Station, Greenbrier, Airport, and Portsmouth.

And why care about 90+ years? Because the goal for the human race is to leave a better world than you were born into.Now obviously LR in Hampton Roads isn't going to better the world, but it's the same thing on a smaller scale.

Do you suppose we continue to sprawl to NC and Richmond? Cutting down thousands of trees? Paying for more and more roads? Using up more and more nonrenewable resources? Creating an Atlanta-like traffic mess with people trying to commute all over the region?
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:55 AM
 
1,477 posts, read 6,001,439 times
Reputation: 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by cityboi757 View Post
Well, I think VB will hve light rail under construction in three years.

And some of us will be able to witness the transformation and be able to live the lifestyle of light rail one day.

In 20 years, we could have extensions to the Oceanfront, Naval Station, Greenbrier, Airport, and Portsmouth.

And why care about 90+ years? Because the goal for the human race is to leave a better world than you were born into.Now obviously LR in Hampton Roads isn't going to better the world, but it's the same thing on a smaller scale.

Do you suppose we continue to sprawl to NC and Richmond? Cutting down thousands of trees? Paying for more and more roads? Using up more and more nonrenewable resources? Creating an Atlanta-like traffic mess with people trying to commute all over the region?

I do hope you are just joking right?

One Va Bch will not have light rail under construction in 3 years...

Two Norfolk will not have any extensions to the Naval stations or Airport in 20 years and I dont see Chesapeake or Portsmouth involved with light rail within the 20 year time frame....

Let me offer you this.....Council man Randy Wright is the leader for light rail in Norfolk and is working with the other cities to expand it......Here is his email randy.wright@norfolk.gov Why dont you send him an email and ask him about the future time frame and then post it on this forum for all to see, because you dont want to believe what anyone else tells you so why dont you go straight to the source...I have spoken to him on many occasions and have listened to what he and other city leaders have said and have tried to pass that info on to you with no luck.......Afterwards maybe you will get off of your light rail kick and understand that besides the starter line that Norfolk is building right now..no other plans to extend it is going to happen for a long long time
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach/Norfolk.
1,565 posts, read 4,332,496 times
Reputation: 460
Okay. I'm not going to ask Wright about anything.

The extension to the Beach, as long as everything flows smoothly, will recieve funding in three-four years at the most.

Quote: "From Alternatives Analysis (which is in the process of being completed) to Full Funding Agreement may take up to four years."
http://www.gohrt.com/vbtes/documents/VB%20CC%20Presentation_090519.pdf (broken link)

Just yesterday, "Mayor Sessoms said His city plans to move ahead with the $40 million purchase of Norfolk Southern's right-of-way and close by Thursday. He says he will not let mismanagement in Norfolk keep light rail from coming to the beach."
Light rail budget could climb again

So that takes care of the Beach extension.

As for the Naval Station,

that could also be done in this decade.There is potential Department of Defense funding. Source: VB City Council. A few of the top Admirals in Hampton Roads voiced support for connecting Naval Station Norfolk to NAS Oceana and said there may even be federal $$ available from the DoD to do such a project.

You can be pessimistic all you want... Your the one ignoring the facts.
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:19 AM
 
6,292 posts, read 10,559,037 times
Reputation: 7505
Looks to me like the money hasn't been secured yet. Plus the voters, if we get a say, will say NO!!! Just like last time.

link
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach/Norfolk.
1,565 posts, read 4,332,496 times
Reputation: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
Looks to me like the money hasn't been secured yet. Plus the voters, if we get a say, will say NO!!! Just like last time.

link
Hate to break it to you but 10 years ago the vote was 55-45 NO. That was without a Town Center, without a MacArhur Center, without the bigger downtown, without redevelopment plans for New Town, Resort, etc. Things change. Also, a referendum is non-binding. And the city has already built it's comprehensive plan around the light rail. YOu think they will just bow down and say "F" it and just forget about LR? DO you understand that it's no longer a want, it's a neccessity?
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:30 AM
 
6,292 posts, read 10,559,037 times
Reputation: 7505
Quote:
Originally Posted by cityboi757 View Post
Hate to break it to you but 10 years ago the vote was 55-45 NO. That was without a Town Center, without a MacArhur Center, without the bigger downtown, without redevelopment plans for New Town, Resort, etc. Things change. Also, a referendum is non-binding. And the city has already built it's comprehensive plan around the light rail. YOu think they will just bow down and say "F" it and just forget about LR? DO you understand that it's no longer a want, it's a neccessity?

How old are you??? Do you realize if the voters say no and the council moves forward anyway they will lose their jobs?? Do you think in this economy they want to lose their jobs? Also read the link the money is not there!!! If it is not found by September the whole deal goes away. Also who cares about there being a town center?? It's a fake downtown designed to make the area look nice. BTW MacArthur opened in March of 99.
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach/Norfolk.
1,565 posts, read 4,332,496 times
Reputation: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
How old are you??? Do you realize if the voters say no and the council moves forward anyway they will lose their jobs?? Do you think in this economy they want to lose their jobs? Also read the link the money is not there!!! If it is not found by September the whole deal goes away. Also who cares about there being a town center?? It's a fake downtown designed to make the area look nice. BTW MacArthur opened in March of 99.
Hmmm.. do you realize that a referendum doesn't have to be held?

And I read that story yesterday. Sessoms is putting 10M in an escrow fund until the state and feds caugh up the rest. You can bet your bottom dollar that those funds will appear before September. The General Assembly is the one who told Virginia Beach to study light rail anyway. It's "in the public interest."You thnk they would make them study it and then not give them the $$?

Town Center may be a "fake downtown," but it's still a major activity center for the region and is poised to grow into something great.

The referendum was held 6 months after MacArthur opened, but they had been talking about light rail for years before the referendum and macathur was even talked about. Also, the line didn't go to the Medical center either.
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