Will you ride light rail? (Norfolk, Hampton: crime rate, high school, Amtrak)

[JBrock]

Yes.

[UHgrad]

Originally Posted by VA7cities

The sad thing is that this is how many virginians (mainly caucasian) think in this area. Sort of sheltered, scary, and close minded. Thats the only reason why I hate this place sometimes. When you look at other cities, they are so forward thinking and progressive. Not here though. This will always be the same old stale, boring, Black & White, behind the times, not in my backyard, VIRGINIA. And usually when people speak of low income or crime, they're talking about black people. keep the blacks from norfolk and portsmouth away. Not realizing they already have cars and can go where they want. Thats the real reason why VA Beach didnt want the lightrail years ago. And thats the reason to this day. Not Taxes or impractical use.

I will agree that some people talk as if crime would dissappear if we got rid of all the black people in norfolk and portsmouth, but that is nowhere near the majority of folks. As far as that being the real reason VB doesnt want rail...I call mostly BS on this.

In a lot of ways the rail IS impractical because we live in a giant suburb and people dont want to pay taxes on things they will not use. It does not make you less "progressive" because you don't want to build something that will not fit your lifestyle. Nobody is going to drive 10 minutes to a train stop from their suburban neighborhood, then wait 10 minutes for a train, then sit on the train for 30min just to get someplace that they could have drove to in 15. And you want to talk about forward thining... what if we have renewable/nuclear power in 20 years and everyone has zero emissions electric cars?? Then who is gonna ride the rail? You can't just transform a suburb into an urban center overnight to accomodate mass transit. What are they supposed to do with their land and houses? You are grossly oversimplifying the situation with your statements.

Now if new development is done in such a way that makes mass transit more viable (if mixed use areas are put up around train stops) then I think it could be a good thing. It seems that the push for these "city centers" is moving in that direction and I'd be all for it if it happened. But please don't look down your nose at people not being "progressive" just because they dont agree with your viewpoint. California is arguable the most "progressive" state in the country and they are about to go bankrupt so what do you say to that?

To answer the original question: Yes, I will ride it if it is practical and not overly inconvenient. Especially going to the beach or downtown norfolk.

[Coconut1]

Originally Posted by UHgrad

people dont want to pay taxes on things they will not use

I think you're right. People don't want to pay taxes, but just not on things they won't use, they don't want to pay taxes at all.

I'm consistently amazed how much people complain about taxes when in reality, taxes here, and on a national level, are dirt cheap. People these days don't realize how good they have it in the US. People from other countries would give their entire paycheck to live like we do. It really actually gets to a point sometimes where I'm truly sickened and disgusted when I see some people out there complaining about taxes.

[UHgrad]

Originally Posted by Coconut1

I think you're right. People don't want to pay taxes, but just not on things they won't use, they don't want to pay taxes at all.

I'm consistently amazed how much people complain about taxes when in reality, taxes here, and on a national level, are dirt cheap. People these days don't realize how good they have it in the US. People from other countries would give their entire paycheck to live like we do. It really actually gets to a point sometimes where I'm truly sickened and disgusted when I see some people out there complaining about taxes.

It is just a different structure, virginia has low income taxes, a very non-progressive tax scale, but higher user fees, targeted sales taxes, and property tax on things like cars. It comes out similar to a lot of states when you add all of those up. People are resistant to pay more taxes for something that will not directly improve their lives, cynical about how efficiently those funds will be used, and not in agreement with how it is being spent. I dont have a problem with that as long as they are consistent... I agree there is a lot of hipocrisy about it that can be irritating though.

You are right that people in other countries would give thier entire paycheck to live like us... but that doesn't really matter on a day to day basis. People, for a large part, seem to be happy or unhappy based on how their lives line up with their expectations not how it compares to someone in a 3rd world country.

[papilgee4evaeva]

I'm bumping this thread in hopes of expanding the discussion.

Let's say that the Tide gets up and running, and the line is built all the way from Norfolk NAS to wherever it's supposed to end in VB. And it proves to be a smashing success, so much so that they decide to build a line to connect to Portsmouth.

How would it get there? Any ideas?

[xGrendelx]

Originally Posted by papilgee4evaeva

I'm bumping this thread in hopes of expanding the discussion.

Let's say that the Tide gets up and running, and the line is built all the way from Norfolk NAS to wherever it's supposed to end in VB. And it proves to be a smashing success, so much so that they decide to build a line to connect to Portsmouth.

How would it get there? Any ideas?

Seems like a tunnel would be the most logical way.

[papilgee4evaeva]

Originally Posted by xGrendelx

Seems like a tunnel would be the most logical way.

That would be my guess, and due to the naval shipyard, probably the only legal one.

Just seems weird to have a dedicated LRT tunnel across a river. It would have been nice if they had built either of the existing tunnels with multimodal capacity.

[rtandc]

The long term plan is to build a new mid town tunnel that would also house the light rail tracks but those plans are no where except in the 50 years vision plan so dont expect to see anything like that most likely in your life time...the local area leaders and the State has stated that a 3rd crossing from the southside is its number one goal as far as new tunnels and it is many many years off at best.........

With Wright losing his seat on Norfolk council, many saying because of the light rail mess, no other city council member in the surrounding citites including the mayor of Va Bch wants anything to do with light rail at this time for fear of them also losing their seat....The beach tried to push foward with light rail but also came under to much fire from its citizens......The beach city leaders know now that any future plans regarding light rail without another referendum by the voters would be political suicide

[xGrendelx]

Originally Posted by rtandc

The long term plan is to build a new mid town tunnel that would also house the light rail tracks but those plans are no where except in the 50 years vision plan so dont expect to see anything like that most likely in your life time...the local area leaders and the State has stated that a 3rd crossing from the southside is its number one goal as far as new tunnels and it is many many years off at best.........

With Wright losing his seat on Norfolk council, many saying because of the light rail mess, no other city council member in the surrounding citites including the mayor of Va Bch wants anything to do with light rail at this time for fear of them also losing their seat....The beach tried to push foward with light rail but also came under to much fire from its citizens......The beach city leaders know now that any future plans regarding light rail without another referendum by the voters would be political suicide

Wow, I hadn't heard about that. You know of any articles or anything talking about this?

[Coconut1]

The tolls should have never been taken off the Midtown and Downtown Tunnels. A third crossing could have been paid for by now and we wouldn't have to wait for the morons in office to get it done. Instead we're all getting screwed every day with more traffic and congestion, and won't see that go away because if anyone even says a word about raising taxes, implementing tolls, etc. people scream from the rafters about it and then that person ends up out of office.

It's a shame people can't see things in terms of the greater good.