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I was born and raised in Philadelphia, and except for 4 years I spent in Bloomsburg going to College, have been here ever since. Long story short, I find the quality of life here to be lacking, especially for the sacrifices that must be made to live here.
Things I dislike about Philadelphia:
A lot of city people aren't pleasant. They're distrustful, unfriendly, and often pathaologically angry or violent. I find that when people have been living in the city for a while, the stress changes them.
Most of the city is ugly in the extreme. You have to go far into the suburbs to relieve your eyes of the urban decay and sprawl. At least a 30 minute drive in any direction. The city parks are pretty much a joke, comparatively. And yes, I've been through all of them many times. The closest thing to a decent park in the area is way out in Bucks County. Even then, the parks are smaller in comparison to the far exurban areas like Phoneixville.
The high city wage tax.
The air quality.
Being robbed at gunpoint twice.
Finding myself driving through vast areas of ghetto on a regular basis.
The Parking Authority, who being the most efficient parking authority in the country (meaning that they are the best at extracting money from people) , is also run like a rogue private police force with no real oversight. They privately profit from Philadelphians inability to constantly keep up with the ever changing and opaque parking rules. They make millions, privately, on the backs of mostly poor Philadelphians. The stress that this extra efficient private police force puts on the average philadelphia driver cannot be underestimated. Unless you've experienced their brand of enforcing 'parking' (they also enforce some traffic rules), you probably can't relate to what Im saying. But trust me, they affect the quality of life of the average philadelphian.
The amount of house that you get for the money (not much). To get into a decent school district, and anything over 1500 feet that doesn't need a ton of work, your spending $300-400k. And thats for a very modest looking house. To top it all off, you'll be smack dab in the middle of a heavily trafficked area of suburban sprawl.
The rat race. People live to work here.
Why I want to move to Harrisburg:
I have some very good friends in the area.
People seem to be more friendly, comparatively.
Less traffic, on average.
Less crime. I know some people think Harrisburg has high crime, and I'm not arguing, I'm just comparing it to what we deal with here.
Lower cost of living.
lower stress. I can actually feel my stress dissipate when I go up to Harrisburg to visit friends. This may be a function of my mind registering the difference in population density, but I'm not really sure.
Much more house for the money. I was amazed when perusing trulia. I can move almost anywhere in the area, and not be worried that the school district is ghetto on the level of any public school in Philadelphia.
Easy access to recreation in the many convenient National and State Parks nearby.
I find the areas along the Susquehanna river beautiful. The fresh air, compared to the city, is palpable.
I'm a blue collar guy at heart. I was raised in a lower-middle class blue collar neighborhood, but went to a very snotty private school in Philadelphia, and so I have associated with both the high society and blue collar classes my entire life. I'm much happier and more comfortable with Blue collar people. However, the blue collar people in Philly are a different breed. Its tough to find people that aren't completely crazy in one respect or another. They seem to be more damaged, on the whole. If you've ever met a lower class Philadelphia tough guy, then you know what I'm talking about. If they aren't a tough guy, then they likely have other personality or substance abuse disorders. I have a hard time relating to them. It seems that its easier to find normal people outside of the city area. My suburban friends around here are a good example. But, in general, I think I would fit in well in the Harrisburg area.
I'm not sure, but I perceive that there might be a better work to life balance here.
Reasons to stay in Philadelphia
More jobs. Although, in my field, I can get a job anywhere. Its just that in Harrisburg I might have less choice and will probably take a 10%, or so, cut in salary. In Philly, I can pick and choose where I work and can get the highest wages.
Family and old friends are here. My mom isn't married, and I worry about her getting lonely.
More convenient to the beach areas and NYC. Although, for how often i visit these places, its likely not worth it to base a location decision on this factor.
More to do in terms of Music and the Arts. I used to go to A LOT of concerts. I still enjoy them. But life is taking up much more of my time now, and I wonder if living here justifies the one concert every 3-4 months that I now attend.
I'm open to the possibility that I might get bored in Harrisburg. But I need much less to be entertained these days, and want to focus on family and friends as my primary source of entertainment. I don't have a family of my own yet, but want to start.
I'm pretty sure that Id like to give the Harrisburg area a shot. But I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts on any of the points that I posted above....
especially from anyone who has experience living in both areas.
Well let me tell you that Harrisburg will have some of the negative elements of philly on a much smaller scale. Rude ignorant people are not bounded by geography even the nicest cities in the US will have them.
Sometimes a change of scenery can help but remember sometimes living someplace is completely different than visiting someplace.
But honestly having grown up all your life in Philly maybe living somewhere else is a nice change and you can always move back if needed since your job skills are transferable.
Well let me tell you that Harrisburg will have some of the negative elements of philly on a much smaller scale. Rude ignorant people are not bounded by geography even the nicest cities in the US will have them.
Sometimes a change of scenery can help but remember sometimes living someplace is completely different than visiting someplace.
But honestly having grown up all your life in Philly maybe living somewhere else is a nice change and you can always move back if needed since your job skills are transferable.
All true.
I don't expect to completely eliminate many of the negative elements that I mentioned, wherever I go.
I guess what I want to know is if the Harrisburg area is a nice place to live, in general?
Of course, like you said, any change from philly would probably do me good.
I'm moving from Harrisburg to Philadelphia this summer. I'll try to make a few comments on each of your points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1
I was born and raised in Philadelphia, and except for 4 years I spent in Bloomsburg going to College, have been here ever since. Long story short, I find the quality of life here to be lacking, especially for the sacrifices that must be made to live here.
Things I dislike about Philadelphia:
A lot of city people aren't pleasant. They're distrustful, unfriendly, and often pathaologically angry or violent. I find that when people have been living in the city for a while, the stress changes them.
Geez, you're scaring me a bit. The people in general are much more laid back in Harrisburg than a larger city, so you may enjoy that. While there's a ton more people in Philadelphia, there is a very strong sense of "community" in my neighborhood. Neighbors are very nice, friendly and treat each other with respect. However, as with any city neighborhood - there are always troublemakers on each block. I think in general you'll find it very easy to meet people and get along if you pick the right neighborhood to move into.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1
Most of the city is ugly in the extreme. You have to go far into the suburbs to relieve your eyes of the urban decay and sprawl. At least a 30 minute drive in any direction. The city parks are pretty much a joke, comparatively. And yes, I've been through all of them many times. The closest thing to a decent park in the area is way out in Bucks County. Even then, the parks are smaller in comparison to the far exurban areas like Phoneixville.
Harrisburg definitely has its fair share of urban decay and blight. However, if you like parks you will most certainly enjoy Riverfront Park. Miles long with biking/walking trails, exercise equipment and picturesque views of the river, west shore and nearby mountains. It's one of the major pluses to living in the city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1
The high city wage tax.
Harrisburg city does not have a wage tax, but has very high property taxes. The property values are low, however, and the land is taxed at a rate six times that of the building. I know Philadelphia has low property taxes, but it's made up with a wage tax.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1
The air quality.
The air quality is notably bad here too, although still probably better than Philadelphia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1
Being robbed at gunpoint twice.
Harrisburg has a higher crime rate than Philadelphia, however the metropolitan area has one of the lowest crime rates in the country. In other words, the high crime areas are concentrated in a few city neighborhoods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1
Finding myself driving through vast areas of ghetto on a regular basis.
The Parking Authority, who being the most efficient parking authority in the country (meaning that they are the best at extracting money from people) , is also run like a rogue private police force with no real oversight. They privately profit from Philadelphians inability to constantly keep up with the ever changing and opaque parking rules. They make millions, privately, on the backs of mostly poor Philadelphians. The stress that this extra efficient private police force puts on the average philadelphia driver cannot be underestimated. Unless you've experienced their brand of enforcing 'parking' (they also enforce some traffic rules), you probably can't relate to what Im saying. But trust me, they affect the quality of life of the average philadelphian.
In two years I've gotten three parking tickets in Harrisburg. Two for parking on street cleaning days (oops, my mistake) and once for parking too close to a fire hydrant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1
The amount of house that you get for the money (not much). To get into a decent school district, and anything over 1500 feet that doesn't need a ton of work, your spending $300-400k. And thats for a very modest looking house. To top it all off, you'll be smack dab in the middle of a heavily trafficked area of suburban sprawl.
You will be able to afford an absolutely gorgeous house in Harrisburg for half of what it'd cost you in Philadelphia. Some of the suburbs are getting pricey, but there are tons of starter homes around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1
The rat race. People live to work here.
You'll notice a bit of that here, due to the 9-5 state worker crowd. However, again, it's much more laid back. Less traffic, a shorter commute and lower cost of living means you'll have more time and money to do what you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1
Why I want to move to Harrisburg:
I have some very good friends in the area.
People seem to be more friendly, comparatively.
Less traffic, on average.
Less crime. I know some people think Harrisburg has high crime, and I'm not arguing, I'm just comparing it to what we deal with here.
Lower cost of living.
lower stress. I can actually feel my stress dissipate when I go up to Harrisburg to visit friends. This may be a function of my mind registering the difference in population density, but I'm not really sure.
Much more house for the money. I was amazed when perusing trulia. I can move almost anywhere in the area, and not be worried that the school district is ghetto on the level of any public school in Philadelphia.
Easy access to recreation in the many convenient National and State Parks nearby.
I find the areas along the Susquehanna river beautiful. The fresh air, compared to the city, is palpable.
I'm a blue collar guy at heart. I was raised in a lower-middle class blue collar neighborhood, but went to a very snotty private school in Philadelphia, and so I have associated with both the high society and blue collar classes my entire life. I'm much happier and more comfortable with Blue collar people. However, the blue collar people in Philly are a different breed. Its tough to find people that aren't completely crazy in one respect or another. They seem to be more damaged, on the whole. If you've ever met a lower class Philadelphia tough guy, then you know what I'm talking about. If they aren't a tough guy, then they likely have other personality or substance abuse disorders. I have a hard time relating to them. It seems that its easier to find normal people outside of the city area. My suburban friends around here are a good example. But, in general, I think I would fit in well in the Harrisburg area.
I'm not sure, but I perceive that there might be a better work to life balance here.
Reasons to stay in Philadelphia
More jobs. Although, in my field, I can get a job anywhere. Its just that in Harrisburg I might have less choice and will probably take a 10%, or so, cut in salary. In Philly, I can pick and choose where I work and can get the highest wages.
Family and old friends are here. My mom isn't married, and I worry about her getting lonely.
More convenient to the beach areas and NYC. Although, for how often i visit these places, its likely not worth it to base a location decision on this factor.
More to do in terms of Music and the Arts. I used to go to A LOT of concerts. I still enjoy them. But life is taking up much more of my time now, and I wonder if living here justifies the one concert every 3-4 months that I now attend.
Of course it will not compare to Philadelphia, but you'll be pleasantly surprised at the music and arts scene here. There are literally dozens of venues playing live music on any given weekend night. Harrisburg really does have a good music scene. However with large concerts? We only get the huge country/pop/rock stars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1
I'm open to the possibility that I might get bored in Harrisburg. But I need much less to be entertained these days, and want to focus on family and friends as my primary source of entertainment. I don't have a family of my own yet, but want to start.
I'm pretty sure that Id like to give the Harrisburg area a shot. But I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts on any of the points that I posted above....
especially from anyone who has experience living in both areas.
Thanks!
You'll miss the convenience to NYC and the shore. However, you'll be closer to the mountains, Baltimore and Washington DC for day trips. You have Hershey, Gettysburg and Lancaster nearby as well. There is enough to do to have fun every weekend.
Thanks Danwxman, for the detailed response. I knew there was a reason I keep coming back to this forum.
I was hoping that someone might confirm what I thought I knew of the area, as you did. I'm pretty excited to give Harrisburg a shot. Heck, just the housing market makes me excited. Its not a very good feeling to know that you have to spend 250-350k for a house, in Philadelphia, that you wont really even like, in a neighborhood that you are, at best, neutral on due to the congestion. It sounds like I can avoid that up there, and feel good about the lifestyle that I can lead vs the money spent...
Also, I'm newly single. The women in Philly, lets just say, range in quality. Women raised in the city areas seem to have more of a mercenary vibe about them, if they aren't completely damaged in some way already. I've always had good luck with the lady friends of my Harrisburg friends, primarily because they just seem less damaged and more down to earth. So in the interest of full disclosure, I'm looking forward to the more small town nature of the women in Harrisburg as well (at least compared to Philly).
dan-I wouldn't pay too much mind to golgi, he's been damaged. I imagine it's hard to have an objective view after having been mugged, twice, at gunpoint, and I don't blame him for that. If you don't like Philly women, there are plenty of women who come from other areas of the country and world. the parks are largely a joke, but it's not quite as bad as he's made it. Wissahickon Valley is the nicest regional park (better than VF)...perhaps not quite on par with French Creek State Park, but immensely more accessible if you live near it. Perhaps golgi can tell us what neighborhood he lives in so as to avoid it.
I too like Harrisburg, it's a nice small city (though a bit too small for my tastes but to each their own) and really, that's what it's all about. plus Harrisburg has troeg's
dan-I wouldn't pay too much mind to golgi, he's been damaged. I imagine it's hard to have an objective view after having been mugged, twice, at gunpoint, and I don't blame him for that. If you don't like Philly women, there are plenty of women who come from other areas of the country and world. the parks are largely a joke, but it's not quite as bad as he's made it. Wissahickon Valley is the nicest regional park (better than VF)...perhaps not quite on par with French Creek State Park, but immensely more accessible if you live near it. Perhaps golgi can tell us what neighborhood he lives in so as to avoid it.
I too like Harrisburg, it's a nice small city (though a bit too small for my tastes but to each their own) and really, that's what it's all about. plus Harrisburg has troeg's
hey pman, I guess you know me enough to tell me how damaged I am... lol..muggings hardly count toward that usually...but thanks...I really think that your just throwing words around...
Also, the meaning of objective isn't in line with your statement. Who, in your opinion, is more objective? Those who have experienced both the best and the worst that the city has to offer, or those who live somewhat sheltered lives in or near the city? Of course, I'd rather have never been mugged in philly, but thats what happens...Also, those experiences were a long time ago, and in no way play into my current opinion about the city whatsoever...You make no sense...
And why shouldn't he pay attention to me? I was only asking if my perceptions were accurate about Harrisburg. Again, you make no sense. I wasnt bothering Dan or trying to start an argument.
Your view on the parks is your view. I agree that Wissahickon is an okay park, but it doesn't rate in terms of the better far suburban parks, and the parks out toward Harrisburg. You mention French Creek as a good example. However, I'll say that Wissahickon isn't even close to French Creek, while you rate it near French Creek. To each his own. Whatever. But you cant deny that the same philly air quality is present whether in the park or not. If you dont know what Im talking about, then you havent been outside the city in a while. Its a marked difference. You really think my opinion on the parks was worth your comment? Everyone has their own opinion. Stating that yours is better than mine, or more accurate, is just strange. I've lived here my entire life. Your opinion is no more valid than mine, nor mine yours. However, this was my thread and my question about Harrisburg. So, again, your comment is superfluous and strange.
you need me to tell you what neighborhood I live in? lol..why?? It absolutely makes no difference. I've lived all over the city and the suburbs. My current neighborhood is absolutely irrelevant to my thread. And unless you don't travel much through the city while living here, your going to be going through both bad and good neighborhoods on a semi-constant basis. You cant avoid the bad of the city just by knowing what neighborhood I live in. Again, I've lived here my entire life. I know the bad and the good of the city inside and out. I've worked all over the city as well. I know what I'm talking about, and I'm fully entitled to my opinion. If you disagree with me, thats completely fine, I could care less. But its irrelevant to the thread...
Is it that your getting your back up because someone dislikes a city that you like? Whats the point?
I'm not going to further argue about the merits and demerits of the city. My opinion is my own, as is yours.
hey pman, I guess you know me enough to tell me how damaged I am... lol..muggings hardly count toward that usually...but thanks...I really think that your just throwing words around...
yes, it's obvious from your first post, and now your second post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1
Your view on the parks is your view. I agree that Wissahickon is an okay park, but it doesn't rate in terms of the better far suburban parks, and the parks out toward Harrisburg. You mention French Creek as a good example. However, I'll say that Wissahickon isn't even close to French Creek, while you rate it near French Creek.
yeah, wissahickon is a great city park, better than VF National Park. French Creek is a wonderful state park. Obviously out in the country there will be more secluded parks, though French Creek is a lot more overrun than it was when I was a kid. I said it was more accessible, meaning if you live near it, you can simply walk into it...something most state parks don't have, and there's a lot to be said for that. I've lived near both parks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1
To each his own. Whatever. But you cant deny that the same philly air quality is present whether in the park or not.
air quality varies from place to place. It's certainly better in wissahickon than it is in south philly. the air quality doesn't really bother me there. having been to other cities, I realize how much worse air quality can be than it is in Philly (not that it can't be better)
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1
If you dont know what Im talking about, then you havent been outside the city in a while. Its a marked difference. You really think my opinion on the parks was worth your comment? Everyone has their own opinion. Stating that yours is better than mine, or more accurate, is just strange. I've lived here my entire life. Your opinion is no more valid than mine, nor mine yours. However, this was my thread and my question about Harrisburg. So, again, your comment is superfluous and strange.
just clarifying a bit for dan. sorry you get your panties in a knot. It's obvious that you live ain a different, hate filled world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1
Is it that your getting your back up because someone dislikes a city that you like? Whats the point?
no, it's absolutely understandable, though you're absurd statements of fact needed to be countered. I didn't say he shouldn't pay attention, just not too much. the intent of your first post didn't require you to go on and on about Philadelphia, and strange assertions about mercenary woman.
yes, it's obvious from your first post, and now your second post.
just clarifying a bit for dan. sorry you get your panties in a knot. It's obvious that you live ain a different, hate filled world.
no, it's absolutely understandable, though you're absurd statements of fact needed to be countered. I didn't say he shouldn't pay attention, just not too much. the intent of your first post didn't require you to go on and on about Philadelphia, and strange assertions about mercenary woman.
lol..whatever guy. I was just sharing my opinion, asking for someone else's opinion, and then having a conversation.
Its obvious that I'm damaged from two posts and I live in a hate filled world, huh? Interesting...
What I really think is that I've somehow offended your philly pride. If you don't want to be offended by other peoples opinion of your city, then don't come to city-data. If people can't voice opinions, both good and bad, without some troll in the guise of a white night hijacking the thread, then the forum is useless. Especially when the opinions of the city are secondary to the primary point of the thread.
The primary point of my thread wasn't to bash Philly, although I needed to state my opinions to put my question into perspective. My 'statements of fact' certainly do not need to be countered, because they are my opinion, and they were necessary to put my question into perspective. Sir or madam, you lack the ability to critically read and to critically think about the nature of the thread and your appropriate response within that thread.
You take a very immature stance of attacking me because you don't agree with my opinions about Philly. Its called an ad-hominem attack, and its considered a very dishonest form of argument.
I think you need to get out of the house a bit more, and stop unnecessarily trolling in other peoples threads. You have no idea who I am... But the fact that you think that you do, and your willing to publicly state it on a forum, when I wasn't even looking for an argument, certainly says something about your psychological condition, but unlike you, I could care less about your condition...
Why is my 'assertion' (opinion) about women a concern for you? Its my opinion. Its not strange, its just based on my experience...and I started the thread. Im not hijacking it by stating my opinions, especially being that they are being used to support my overall dilemma within the thread; however, you are hijacking the thread by attacking me for my opinions... BTW, how many late tweny something / early thirty something women have you dated in philly in the last 5 years? I've dated quite a few, and I've also dated women from the Harrisburg area. In my opinion, there is a marked difference, on average. I believe that I'm entitled to my opinion. But I'm now sure that you'll attack my choice of women, or say something else to keep an argument going here...
What it comes down to is that your being a troll...
and your also contributing to the overall increasing toxicity within the city data forums...there are just too many trolls here...
I was born and raised in Philadelphia, and except for 4 years I spent in Bloomsburg going to College, have been here ever since. Long story short, I find the quality of life here to be lacking, especially for the sacrifices that must be made to live here.
Things I dislike about Philadelphia:
A lot of city people aren't pleasant. They're distrustful, unfriendly, and often pathaologically angry or violent. I find that when people have been living in the city for a while, the stress changes them.
Most of the city is ugly in the extreme. You have to go far into the suburbs to relieve your eyes of the urban decay and sprawl. At least a 30 minute drive in any direction. The city parks are pretty much a joke, comparatively. And yes, I've been through all of them many times. The closest thing to a decent park in the area is way out in Bucks County. Even then, the parks are smaller in comparison to the far exurban areas like Phoneixville.
The high city wage tax.
The air quality.
Being robbed at gunpoint twice.
Finding myself driving through vast areas of ghetto on a regular basis.
The Parking Authority, who being the most efficient parking authority in the country (meaning that they are the best at extracting money from people) , is also run like a rogue private police force with no real oversight. They privately profit from Philadelphians inability to constantly keep up with the ever changing and opaque parking rules. They make millions, privately, on the backs of mostly poor Philadelphians. The stress that this extra efficient private police force puts on the average philadelphia driver cannot be underestimated. Unless you've experienced their brand of enforcing 'parking' (they also enforce some traffic rules), you probably can't relate to what Im saying. But trust me, they affect the quality of life of the average philadelphian.
The amount of house that you get for the money (not much). To get into a decent school district, and anything over 1500 feet that doesn't need a ton of work, your spending $300-400k. And thats for a very modest looking house. To top it all off, you'll be smack dab in the middle of a heavily trafficked area of suburban sprawl.
The rat race. People live to work here.
Why I want to move to Harrisburg:
I have some very good friends in the area.
People seem to be more friendly, comparatively.
Less traffic, on average.
Less crime. I know some people think Harrisburg has high crime, and I'm not arguing, I'm just comparing it to what we deal with here.
Lower cost of living.
lower stress. I can actually feel my stress dissipate when I go up to Harrisburg to visit friends. This may be a function of my mind registering the difference in population density, but I'm not really sure.
Much more house for the money. I was amazed when perusing trulia. I can move almost anywhere in the area, and not be worried that the school district is ghetto on the level of any public school in Philadelphia.
Easy access to recreation in the many convenient National and State Parks nearby.
I find the areas along the Susquehanna river beautiful. The fresh air, compared to the city, is palpable.
I'm a blue collar guy at heart. I was raised in a lower-middle class blue collar neighborhood, but went to a very snotty private school in Philadelphia, and so I have associated with both the high society and blue collar classes my entire life. I'm much happier and more comfortable with Blue collar people. However, the blue collar people in Philly are a different breed. Its tough to find people that aren't completely crazy in one respect or another. They seem to be more damaged, on the whole. If you've ever met a lower class Philadelphia tough guy, then you know what I'm talking about. If they aren't a tough guy, then they likely have other personality or substance abuse disorders. I have a hard time relating to them. It seems that its easier to find normal people outside of the city area. My suburban friends around here are a good example. But, in general, I think I would fit in well in the Harrisburg area.
I'm not sure, but I perceive that there might be a better work to life balance here.
Reasons to stay in Philadelphia
More jobs. Although, in my field, I can get a job anywhere. Its just that in Harrisburg I might have less choice and will probably take a 10%, or so, cut in salary. In Philly, I can pick and choose where I work and can get the highest wages.
Family and old friends are here. My mom isn't married, and I worry about her getting lonely.
More convenient to the beach areas and NYC. Although, for how often i visit these places, its likely not worth it to base a location decision on this factor.
More to do in terms of Music and the Arts. I used to go to A LOT of concerts. I still enjoy them. But life is taking up much more of my time now, and I wonder if living here justifies the one concert every 3-4 months that I now attend.
I'm open to the possibility that I might get bored in Harrisburg. But I need much less to be entertained these days, and want to focus on family and friends as my primary source of entertainment. I don't have a family of my own yet, but want to start.
I'm pretty sure that Id like to give the Harrisburg area a shot. But I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts on any of the points that I posted above....
especially from anyone who has experience living in both areas.
Thanks!
I'm not sure how this thread went downhill so quickly, but let's try not to insult each other and get back on track please. Flames off guys!
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