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Old 11-19-2011, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Kūkiʻo, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
2,624 posts, read 6,848,263 times
Reputation: 2409

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotzcatz View Post
Well, it was filed against the U.S. federal government, it almost seems a red herring to state it as "President Obama's administration". You're gonna get a whole lot of Democrat/Republican debate going on if you use nomenclature like that.

How would you untangle Hawaii from the United States at this late date? I've not seen anyone address the nuts and bolts of an "un-seizure". Do all the folks now living here become Hawaiian citizens? There are a lot of folks born here who aren't of Hawaiian blood but there were a lot of Hawaiian citizens of the monarchy who weren't of Hawaiian blood, too. Do the new Hawaiians have to give up their U.S. citizenship?

Who would be the government of the islands? Can they manage it? If Hawaii regained it's sovereignity would it be able to maintain it in this current political world? We would have to ally with someone to order to maintain it since we don't have the kind of defenses necessary in this nuclear world.

So far I haven't seen any valid plans on what to do if the islands were "un-seized". Other than general chaos, that is.

Maybe a reverse statehood would be like the way it became a state. Go from being a state to becoming a territory again and then eventually working it's way back to the monarchy? A government is a whole integrated system, I don't think you can just boot these things up instantly.
The idea of going back to a Hawaiian monarchy is somewhat ludicrous. There's a "third rail" in the Hawaiian sovereignty movement that involves the Hawaiian "Interregnum" Period (December 13, 1872 - February 13, 1874). Kamehameha V (Lot Kapuāiwa) died on December 12, 1872 without naming a successor. Under Article 22 of the Hawaiian Constitution of 1864, if the reigning monarch died without naming a heir a successor to the throne would be elected by the Legislative Assembly. The leading candidates to succeed Kamehameha V were William Charles Lunalilo and David Kalākaua; however, Lunalilo threw a "wrench in the works" by pushing for a popular election so that the voice of all of the people could be heard. On January 1, 1873, Lunalilo won the unofficial popular vote and a week later, he was unanimously elected "king" by the Legislative Assembly who took their cues from the popular vote. Unfortunately, Lunalilo was an alcoholic and he died on February 3, 1874 after reigning for a mere 390 days without naming a successor or altering the 1864 Constitution.

The leading candidates to succeed Lunalilo were David Kalākaua and the dowager Queen Emma (widow of Kamehameha IV). Unlike Kalākaua, Emma was closely related to Kamehameha I by descent as well as her marriage to Kamehameha IV. Unfortunately, Emma was "pro-British" whereas Kalākaua was more "pro-American." While the people (and allegedly Lunalilo) preferred Emma, Kalākaua had shrewdly lobbied the Legislative Assembly since losing the previous election for "king" to Lunalilo. However, unlike the previous election, there was no popular vote and on February 12, 1874, the Legislative Assembly elected Kalākaua "king" by a vote of 39 to 6 and the people rioted.

Fortunately for Kalākaua, there were two American warships (the U.S.S. Tuscarora and U.S.S. Portsmouth) and one British warship (the H.M.S Tenedos) moored at Honolulu. Twelve members of the Legislative Assembly were injured by the rioters (one died later on as a result of his injuries) and 150 U.S. troops were brought in from the Tuscarora and Portsmouth along with 70 British troops from the Tenedos to quell the riot. Thus, the "Hawaiian Kingdom" lost its legitimacy and right to exist the minute it had to resort to calling in foreign troops to stop the riot after the "election" of Kalākaua in 1874. While some Hawaiian sovereignty activists view the overthrow of Lili'uokalani in 1893 or the annexation by the United States in 1898 as more critical dates in the loss of Hawaiian sovereignty. Those dates are mere "formalities" in a loss of sovereignty that had begun 20 years prior.

Officially, the "Hawaiian Kingdom" lasted from 1810 to 1893 -- a mere 83 years. Hawai'i as been a part of the United States for 113 years (as either a "territory or a "state") or 40 years longer than it existed as a "kingdom." Too much time has passed and there's really no going back...
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Old 11-19-2011, 08:21 PM
 
1,872 posts, read 2,592,346 times
Reputation: 2161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonah K View Post
Officially, the "Hawaiian Kingdom" lasted from 1810 to 1893 -- a mere 83 years. Hawai'i as been a part of the United States for 113 years (as either a "territory or a "state") or 40 years longer than it existed as a "kingdom." Too much time has passed and there's really no going back...
So, does this mean no Alastexasi'i?
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Old 11-19-2011, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Kūkiʻo, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
2,624 posts, read 6,848,263 times
Reputation: 2409
Quote:
Originally Posted by McFrostyJ View Post
So, does this mean no Alastexasi'i?
Yeah, there will probably be no Alastexasi'i...

The independent "Republic of Texas" only lasted from 1836 to 1846. Alaska wasn't a "united entity" until the Russians came during the 17th Century and eventually colonized it by the late 18th Century. On a side note, some Russians "dabbled" with the idea of colonizing Hawai'i as well during the early 19th Century...
Russians in Hawai`i - Hawaii History - Short Stories
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Old 11-19-2011, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Maui County, HI
4,131 posts, read 6,988,286 times
Reputation: 3389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonah K View Post
The idea of going back to a Hawaiian monarchy is somewhat ludicrous. There's a "third rail" in the Hawaiian sovereignty movement that involves the Hawaiian "Interregnum" Period (December 13, 1872 - February 13, 1874). Kamehameha V (Lot Kapuāiwa) died on December 12, 1872 without naming a successor. Under Article 22 of the Hawaiian Constitution of 1864, if the reigning monarch died without naming a heir a successor to the throne would be elected by the Legislative Assembly. The leading candidates to succeed Kamehameha V were William Charles Lunalilo and David Kalākaua; however, Lunalilo threw a "wrench in the works" by pushing for a popular election so that the voice of all of the people could be heard. On January 1, 1873, Lunalilo won the unofficial popular vote and a week later, he was unanimously elected "king" by the Legislative Assembly who took their cues from the popular vote. Unfortunately, Lunalilo was an alcoholic and he died on February 3, 1874 after reigning for a mere 390 days without naming a successor or altering the 1864 Constitution.

The leading candidates to succeed Lunalilo were David Kalākaua and the dowager Queen Emma (widow of Kamehameha IV). Unlike Kalākaua, Emma was closely related to Kamehameha I by descent as well as her marriage to Kamehameha IV. Unfortunately, Emma was "pro-British" whereas Kalākaua was more "pro-American." While the people (and allegedly Lunalilo) preferred Emma, Kalākaua had shrewdly lobbied the Legislative Assembly since losing the previous election for "king" to Lunalilo. However, unlike the previous election, there was no popular vote and on February 12, 1874, the Legislative Assembly elected Kalākaua "king" by a vote of 39 to 6 and the people rioted.

Fortunately for Kalākaua, there were two American warships (the U.S.S. Tuscarora and U.S.S. Portsmouth) and one British warship (the H.M.S Tenedos) moored at Honolulu. Twelve members of the Legislative Assembly were injured by the rioters (one died later on as a result of his injuries) and 150 U.S. troops were brought in from the Tuscarora and Portsmouth along with 70 British troops from the Tenedos to quell the riot. Thus, the "Hawaiian Kingdom" lost its legitimacy and right to exist the minute it had to resort to calling in foreign troops to stop the riot after the "election" of Kalākaua in 1874. While some Hawaiian sovereignty activists view the overthrow of Lili'uokalani in 1893 or the annexation by the United States in 1898 as more critical dates in the loss of Hawaiian sovereignty. Those dates are mere "formalities" in a loss of sovereignty that had begun 20 years prior.

Officially, the "Hawaiian Kingdom" lasted from 1810 to 1893 -- a mere 83 years. Hawai'i as been a part of the United States for 113 years (as either a "territory or a "state") or 40 years longer than it existed as a "kingdom." Too much time has passed and there's really no going back...
Wow, thanks for the history lesson. That's more complicated than what I've read elsewhere.
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Old 11-20-2011, 06:33 AM
 
2,623 posts, read 6,007,773 times
Reputation: 4559
Quote:
Originally Posted by kawena808 View Post
...... federal lawsuit filed on June 1, 2010 against President Obama's administration in Washington, D.C.


Please visit Politics and Other Controversies for related subjects.
Thanks,
7th
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