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04-04-2012, 12:17 PM
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Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 27,012,128 times
Reputation: 10710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
Except that 54.3% of minimum wage in a community with the highest COL in the nation -- umm, doesn't amount to squat!  |
Let's see... Minimum wage is $7.25/hr x 40 hrs is $290/wk
Unemployment benefit would be 54.3% x $290 = $157.47 /wk
I'm not sure what squat is worth these day, but holy guano, that sure isn't much money.  |
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04-04-2012, 12:22 PM
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7,150 posts, read 10,157,133 times
Reputation: 3806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD
Let's see... Minimum wage is $7.25/hr x 40 hrs is $290/wk
Unemployment benefit would be 54.3% x $290 = $157.47 /wk
I'm not sure what squat is worth these day, but holy guano, that sure isn't much money. |
Here's where you go to find out
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04-04-2012, 02:04 PM
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142 posts, read 278,419 times
Reputation: 65
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I think you guys are missing the point, unemployment is not supposed to cover your entire COL. We're America, not Europe (where in some instances its better to be on the dole...). That said, it is amazing that Hawaii has an employer funded 54% benny system. Scoff if you like, but I'm sure you'd be right there with your hand out for the guano if the stuff hits the fan  |
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04-04-2012, 03:06 PM
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Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 27,012,128 times
Reputation: 10710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyapint
I think you guys are missing the point, unemployment is not supposed to cover your entire COL.
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No, I think you're missing the point, that the "safety net" here is not nearly wonderful.
Is it better than nothing? Yes.
What would be better? Really comprehensive counseling and training benefits to accompany the check.
Last edited by OpenD; 04-04-2012 at 03:28 PM..
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04-04-2012, 04:27 PM
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142 posts, read 278,419 times
Reputation: 65
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Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. You are not going to get that level unless you go to Sweden  (and pay the necessary tax rate). I think the level of benefits coupled with personal resources is quite generous for the USA. We have seen how entitlements worked out in Greece and Europe... |
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04-04-2012, 04:40 PM
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Location: Southwest France
1,413 posts, read 3,110,518 times
Reputation: 2458
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Omg!
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04-04-2012, 04:57 PM
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Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 27,012,128 times
Reputation: 10710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyapint
Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. You are not going to get that level unless you go to Sweden |
Not so. Matter of fact, for a time it was fairly common. And numerous studies have shown that comprehensive counseling, testing & training is a much more effective use of unemployment benefit funds than simply passing out a dole.
Years ago, after being laid off in Massachusetts, I went through their mandatory unemployment counselling program, and wound up being trained for a new career which paid better than my old one. It was a huge turnaround for me, as it was for many others I came in contact through the program. And needless to say, I quickly rejoined the ranks of gainfully employed taxpayers as a result. It was a net gain for the community I lived in at that time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyapint
I think the level of benefits coupled with personal resources is quite generous for the USA.
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Really? I guess you haven't been following the news. Or you have a different concept of what "generous" means than I do. Let me just say that I know a number of people who are out of work at the moment, for one reason or another, and all I see is hardship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyapint
We have seen how entitlements worked out in Greece and Europe...
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Totally different situation. Totally. |
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04-04-2012, 05:21 PM
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142 posts, read 278,419 times
Reputation: 65
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Level of benefits -
Touche. Notice past tense though. I think our current country/state debt predicament makes this untenable. As Europe found out, we just don't have the funds to retrain everyone on the taxpayer dime. Hawaii's unemployment program has already had to dip into federal resources.
Generous benefits for the USA -
Maybe generous is the wrong word. I guess I bring up Europe again, if you want people to have 80% or more benefits and training after a job loss, you'll have to pay the taxes for it. I don't think that is in line with US values. Gotta have a rainy day fund (as the mantra goes on this site)
Entitlements in Europe (especially Greece)-
You're kidding right? How did you think Greece is in this situation? Why is everyone in Europe going through vast austerity programs, the complete opposite of the USA? Because along with other factors, entitlement largess made country debt untenable. It's at worst a failure or at least a pull back of the welfare state.
I get it, it could be better. And it is tough when you are in the spot, regardless of the percentage/arrangement of benefits. But my point is, Hawaii has the best setup in the nation. Nothing you are saying disproves that. Will it be hard? Yes. Will you have to downsize? Yes. But a lot of places get a whole lot less and make out.
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04-04-2012, 05:57 PM
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Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 27,012,128 times
Reputation: 10710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyapint
Touche. Notice past tense though. I think our current country/state debt predicament makes this untenable. As Europe found out, we just don't have the funds to retrain everyone on the taxpayer dime.
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No, it should be paid out of the insurance benefits, as mine was. And many studies have shown that a well run program saves money in the long term. This kind of benefit got chopped because legislators are lousy at doing cost/benefits analyses, and only look at the cost side when they start slashing.
At the risk of derailing the conversation, let me point to the current flap about insurance companies paying for contraception, because it is such a clear illustration. Everyone is focused on the cost... who pays for it, whether employers should be forced to bear the cost, or the insurance companies... blah blah blah. But the simple truth is, as revealed by detailed cost/benefit analysis, is that insurance companies avoid $4 in avoided maternity costs for every $1 they spend on providing "free" contraceptives. It's actually a no brainer for them to do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyapint
Maybe generous is the wrong word. I guess I bring up Europe again, if you want people to have 80% or more benefits and training after a job loss, you'll have to pay the taxes for it. I don't think that is in line with US values. Gotta have a rainy day fund (as the mantra goes on this site).
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Right, whereas a real safety net kicks in after the prudent rainy day fund is exhausted. I'm not saying people should not suffer hardship or loss, or even discomfort, I'm saying when they lose a job and it's not their fault it usually takes a lot more than just a partial paycheck for awhile to get them back on their feet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyapint
You're kidding right? How did you think Greece is in this situation?
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Not because they spent too much on job counseling and retraining, I guarantee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyapint
I get it, it could be better. And it is tough when you are in the spot, regardless of the percentage/arrangement of benefits. But my point is, Hawaii has the best setup in the nation.
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Biggest maximum weekly benefit, yes. Best setup overall, I don't think so. |
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