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Old 04-06-2012, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Big Island- Hawaii, AK, WA where the whales are!
1,492 posts, read 4,008,719 times
Reputation: 796

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And take the non extension of benfits as other states into the amount of money over the long term. Makes the weekly less. And the chances of finding a job on all islands with cost of living. All that posted here that lives in Hawaii good posts. I just can't go there as well as you to explain the difference between cost of living.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 27,043,406 times
Reputation: 10716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
That's always seemed like a waste of money to me.
I don't like "seems" at all. Far, far too many mistakes in public policy are made in the name of unsubstantiated "seems." I'm very much a "results oriented" kind of guy, an analysis guy, a believer in clear goals and hard metrics. And there have been a number of provably effective programs which could be replicated in other venues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Trained in what? Counseled for what?
Exactly. That's the key to an effective program. Skilled intake assessment is critical to tailoring appropriate responses to individual cases. Some clients need a little, some need a lot. Some need skills training, some need motivational support, some need career guidance, some need a professional researcher in their corner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
It seems pretty clear that further education is what is needed. FAFSA loans are easily accessable for all, for that.
That's fine for some needs, irrelevant for others. There is no panacea when it comes to dealing with unemployment.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:20 AM
 
Location: Hawaii
1,691 posts, read 4,174,523 times
Reputation: 3100
The max is $549...I currently draw unemployment. Hawaii bases the weeks paid on a 4 tier system. Hawaii is now on the 3rd tier and is not eligible for the 4th tier due to our unemploymennt numbers aren't high enough. When our numbers go higher (if) we'll get the 4th tier (we're very close). The weeks eligible are due to the unemployment numbers, not what the governor wants to prove.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:54 AM
 
142 posts, read 278,565 times
Reputation: 65
nullgeo, opend

if you get the max bennie, its the nearly the same as working two minimum wage jobs full time(your off quoted get by metric). not sure what u want from the program, to put them up at the trump tower??

thats not what the us system does. its a stop gap to supplement what you have to keep u from the breadline. i seriously challenge u to spend some time in europe, and see the work ethic of some countries with expansive benefits. ill save you a trip: they dont work and there are riots in the streets and strikes all over due to the necessary bennie pullback.

job training programs, etc all these things cost. i am with tiger beer on this one, if you need to learn there are avenues such as fasfa. imagine the outcry if unemployment became some sort of slush fund means to find yourself (oh like europe).

i just think in the us we should be more like the ant and the grasshopper story. we see whats going on in europe, chinas got us by the family heirlooms, and we want to put people up at the trump and send em to UH in art history
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Old 04-07-2012, 02:36 AM
 
Location: Maui County, HI
4,131 posts, read 7,132,286 times
Reputation: 3390
Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyapint View Post
Look, if you are the border line to begin with wherever you are and whatever benefit you get save SOCIALISM you are screwed. Unemployment IS NOT an escape from personal responsibility. Not what it is about. If you blow all your cash or have not marketable skills you are done. The government in the US is not a charity. If you have a rainy day fund and a decent job that is cut, Hawaiis unemployment is the best there is stateside, bar none. Just ask the politicians If its good enough to be abused its pretty darn good Look at Europe, in some places it is better to RECEIVE BENEFITS than to WORK MINIMUM WAGE. We dont want that do we??????
Minimum wage isn't a living wage. The only reason people can survive on such low pay is because of socialist government help.

Saving for a rainy day? That must be some kind of joke. Most jobs now pay barely enough to get by. This isn't the 1970s when working hard meant earning a living wage and being able to save.
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Old 04-07-2012, 02:44 AM
 
Location: Kahala
11,979 posts, read 16,424,019 times
Reputation: 5990
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkosmosis View Post
Minimum wage isn't a living wage. The only reason people can survive on such low pay is because of socialist government help.

Saving for a rainy day? That must be some kind of joke. Most jobs now pay barely enough to get by. This isn't the 1970s when working hard meant earning a living wage and being able to save.
Ok, I've got to laugh at this one - you weren't even born in the 1970's. The 1970's weren't exactly a banner decade for saving money. In fact, the Jimmy Carter years weren't exactly kind to the economy - they were pretty devastating. If you want to pick a decade - pick the 1990's - very low unemployment and we even had a balanced budget at times.
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Old 04-07-2012, 02:53 AM
 
142 posts, read 278,565 times
Reputation: 65
Default Minimum wage in S.F. up to $10.24, highest in U.S

Quote:
Originally Posted by winkosmosis View Post
Minimum wage isn't a living wage. The only reason people can survive on such low pay is because of socialist government help.

Saving for a rainy day? That must be some kind of joke. Most jobs now pay barely enough to get by. This isn't the 1970s when working hard meant earning a living wage and being able to save.
Well wink if you think like that maybe SF is for you

Minimum wage in S.F. up to $10.24, highest in U.S.

Minimum wage in S.F. up to $10.24, highest in U.S. (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/12/31/BA711MEVP1.DTL#ixzz1rL4zNWQA - broken link)
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:31 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,174,053 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyapint View Post
nullgeo, opend

if you get the max bennie, its the nearly the same as working two minimum wage jobs full time(your off quoted get by metric). not sure what u want from the program, to put them up at the trump tower??

thats not what the us system does. its a stop gap to supplement what you have to keep u from the breadline. i seriously challenge u to spend some time in europe, and see the work ethic of some countries with expansive benefits. ill save you a trip: they dont work and there are riots in the streets and strikes all over due to the necessary bennie pullback.

job training programs, etc all these things cost. i am with tiger beer on this one, if you need to learn there are avenues such as fasfa. imagine the outcry if unemployment became some sort of slush fund means to find yourself (oh like europe).

i just think in the us we should be more like the ant and the grasshopper story. we see whats going on in europe, chinas got us by the family heirlooms, and we want to put people up at the trump and send em to UH in art history
Fancy -- I'm not concerned whether you specifically understand what point I am concerned to make here -- but the fact that you don't means some others might not, as well ... so, one more shot:

I don't care what life is like in Europe ... or even the mainland U.S.
I have not written one word about any entitlements, either ...
have not said one thing about what the government should, or should not do, offer, provide ...

What I am entirely concerned with is that you are posting an optimism of the type that will be seized by a certain type of personality -- and run with. Hawaii represents such a strong emotion to be free and escape the entrapments of everyday living that many will read your proclamation of high unemployment benefits as a sufficient safety net. It is likely to be the last justification these dreamers will need to feel they can take the gamble.

Unemployment benefits in Hawaii will put you on the streets in a wink -- unless you are very strongly bonded to family here. Family that will take your struggles as their own.

You clearly don't live here, Fancy -- which isn't a problem ... and you are as welcome to come to Hawaii and enjoy it as anyone else. But please don't promote the place without deep experience of the realities.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:37 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,174,053 times
Reputation: 3806
Also, Fancy, as for Europe failing and rioting in the streets, that is a gross mis-characterization of "Europe". There are about four dozen countries in Europe. Perhaps a half dozen or eight are in deep puckey and experiencing significant social upheaval as a result. A number of other European countries are struggling as well, but where in the world isn't? You suggest that China is on the verge of overwhelming the world? That impression does not jibe with a lot of ominous signs there of economics-coming-to-reality.

The whole world struggles, since the beginning of the age of agriculture and explosive growth of societies. Cycles come and go for various temporary "winners" and "losers". That's just life on the big blue ball -- not a basis for condemnation of specific regions or systems. Some of the world's most stable economies right now are also in Europe, operating very successfully under some pretty socialist models. Norway and Germany especially. France is strong. More, as well. The strongest countries around the world are generally quite socialist in commitment to their citizens -- and are always a nice balance of resources relative to manageable population size and equitability with regard to income equalities and mobility. Canada is perhaps as good an example as there is in today's world.

And lastly, I would point out that the science of anthropology rightly identifies homo sapiens as a social animal. Social animals do not exist to sacrifice the many for the few. The goal of government is not the same as the goals of business. Government is to serve the best interests of the citizens. Spending less is sometimes important -- and sometimes exactly the wrong strategy.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 27,043,406 times
Reputation: 10716
Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyapint View Post
if you get the max bennie, its the nearly the same as working two minimum wage jobs full time(your off quoted get by metric). not sure what u want from the program, to put them up at the trump tower??
I didn't say to pay more. I said to stop talking about it like it's a cushy benefit. It's clearly not, for the average recipient, and the majority should not be treated as if they were all abusers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyapint View Post
job training programs, etc all these things cost. i am with tiger beer on this one, if you need to learn there are avenues such as fasfa. imagine the outcry if unemployment became some sort of slush fund means to find yourself (oh like europe).
This is the kind of short-sighted thinking that keeps so many government programs less effective than they could be. Yes, counseling and training cost more than doing nothing. But if they reduce overall costs by getting people back to work sooner, the programs can pay for themselves. And if they get people back to work at better paying jobs, they can even create a positive return. Both results have been demonstrated, in programs that a rational person would say are effective and should be reproduced widely, but which have instead fallen to the axe due to legislators ONLY looking at raw costs, rather than doing good cost/benefit analyses and considering returns on investment.

For example, many people who are unemployed can benefit greatly from a few hours of computer training. Short, focused workshops can build skills and confidence. Older workers can often benefit from brush-up classes or upgrades in their professional knowledge. Training does not have to be long-term or expensive to be useful and to create a payback benefit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyapint View Post
i just think in the us we should be more like the ant and the grasshopper story. we see whats going on in europe, chinas got us by the family heirlooms, and we want to put people up at the trump and send em to UH in art history
Your sarcastic exaggerations (Trump Tower, slush fund, art history) make it difficult to have a serious discussion. Many people on unemployment are much more like the ant than the grasshopper, but they've been hit by a circumstance bigger than they are. No, social nets should not be configured to keep people from suffering loss, or to coddle people who don't really want to work, but they should help keep hardworking people from being crushed by factors outside their control.
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