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Old 04-10-2012, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Kahala
11,979 posts, read 16,424,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post

On the mainland, opportunities are various and in many many fields ... there are emerging technologies ... etc. In Hawaii, there is civilian service employment, mostly pretty menial stuff, to serve the military ... and there are tourism service jobs. All other professions to serve local residents are fairly restricted by semi-stagnant population growth -- limited development, etc.

So, what do you think is the advantage / opportunity of aggressive re-training strategies in the state? Wouldn't retraining really require a fair amount of emigration out of Hawaii to find jobs to fit? Not necessarily a bad thing -- an opportunity away is nothing to sneeze at given the alternatives.
That seems to be a fairly narrow view of jobs in Hawaii - especially Oahu. You've got a banking industry, take a peek at those buildings on Bishop/King - airlines - hospitals - insurance - shipping - retail - utilities - etc - etc......
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whtviper1 View Post
That seems to be a fairly narrow view of jobs in Hawaii - especially Oahu. You've got a banking industry, take a peek at those buildings on Bishop/King - airlines - hospitals - insurance - shipping - retail - utilities - etc - etc......
Not too narrow. Banking, shipping, airlines, hospitals, insurance, retail, utilities all fall under the category of professions to serve the local population. Hawaii is not an industry base for any larger region, let alone the nation or an international concern. Shipping in Hawaii is strictly about shipping things, mostly consumables, here from the mainland (and almost nothing back). Airlines are tourism-related. Hospitals serve the local population -- no one flies here for specialty medical treatments (except from Guam to the Hawaii VA). Retail, utilities, -- all the same story. The mainland is always growing and developing new industries and population centers, etc. Hawaii is an island -- limited. Where do retrained people go with new skills to find careers? Mainland.
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Kahala
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Not too narrow. Banking, shipping, airlines, hospitals, insurance, retail, utilities all fall under the category of professions to serve the local population. Hawaii is not an industry base for any larger region, let alone the nation or an international concern. Shipping in Hawaii is strictly about shipping things, mostly consumables, here from the mainland (and almost nothing back). Airlines are tourism-related. Hospitals serve the local population -- no one flies here for specialty medical treatments (except from Guam to the Hawaii VA). Retail, utilities, -- all the same story. The mainland is always growing and developing new industries and population centers, etc. Hawaii is an island -- limited. Where do retrained people go with new skills to find careers? Mainland.
It doesn't matter if it serves the local population or not - you still need skills to work in those areas. Not all jobs serve the military or are tourist service jobs,
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 27,043,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
So, what do you think is the advantage / opportunity of aggressive re-training strategies in the state? Wouldn't retraining really require a fair amount of emigration out of Hawaii to find jobs to fit?
I didn't say aggressive. For many unemployed people even a few hours of computer training can improve their job prospects markedly. Telephone skills, culinary skills, hospitality skills... all are incremental in nature and encourage upward mobility from the low end. And as I heard one counselor say years ago, simply teaching someone how to use an alarm clock and a few basic time-management skills can be a life-changing act.

But to look at the other end for a moment... NOT what I see unemployment benefits providing... I see a chicken and egg situation in terms of developing the business economy of the State of Hawai'i. It's hard to build innovative businesses here because of the shortage of skilled workers, and it's hard to build a pool of skilled workers here because of a shortage of good jobs. So what mostly happens now is that locals take low level jobs, or move to the mainland for better opportunities; while high level jobs are filled - to a high extent - with people recruited from the mainland. And that has become a self-perpetuating cycle.

I personally think Hawai'i could become a major player in the alternative and emerging technologies of fossil-free energy, water purification, and waste recycling. Could. We certainly have a unique combination of resources and local needs to explore. And we've got innovative pilot projects all over the place. We could be the preferred consultants to a global market. What would it take to take all that potential to the next level and turn Hawai'i into a go-to resource center for environmentally sound technology?

Well, capital investment, obviously, and a motivating vision. But you also have to have the people to staff the mid to upper level technology jobs this would create. In a recent analysis I read about iPhone manufacture I learned that the key factor that has iPhones being built in China is not cost, per se, but the fact that China has the engineers necessary to be available on very short notice to ramp up various changes. They have a lot more flexibility in China than Apple could find in the US.

Even within the dominant industry now, tourism and hospitality, there's little training resource for natives here except the school of hard knocks. For good culinary or hotel management training one has to go off-island, and most of the execs here are imported. I think that's backwards. Hawai'i could be a resource center for the global trade, if only someone had the vision and will to bring it into being.

OK, OK, I strayed a ways off the central point, but you did ask.
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Kahala
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This is a good story about why things like the iphone is not built in the US -

Skills are part of it - but ramping up and building a factory in weeks not months is another - and working conditions also play a factor (workers live in dorms - on call 24/7)

Why is the iPhone made in China and not America? | Mail Online
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:07 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,174,053 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whtviper1 View Post
It doesn't matter if it serves the local population or not - you still need skills to work in those areas. Not all jobs serve the military or are tourist service jobs,
Umm, yes. You need skills to work in those areas. But my point is that those industries are limited in size and scope. They are not hiring lots of new workers on a regular basis. They are not growth industries expanding with new job openings all the time -- as happens with growth companies on the mainland. Very few, if any companies in Hawaii are growing and offering new employment. That is to say: Hawaii is a nearly static environment of very limited opportunity. If, say, a number of people lose their jobs in hotel services due to a downturn in tourism, and they want to retrain to a new profession -- say high-voltage linemen -- there are very limited, if any, opportunities for them to win employment in Hawaii. Hawaii doesn't have dozens of new industries opening new plants that demand new powerlines ... etc.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:20 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,174,053 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
I didn't say aggressive. For many unemployed people even a few hours of computer training can improve their job prospects markedly. Telephone skills, culinary skills, hospitality skills... all are incremental in nature and encourage upward mobility from the low end. And as I heard one counselor say years ago, simply teaching someone how to use an alarm clock and a few basic time-management skills can be a life-changing act.

But to look at the other end for a moment... NOT what I see unemployment benefits providing... I see a chicken and egg situation in terms of developing the business economy of the State of Hawai'i. It's hard to build innovative businesses here because of the shortage of skilled workers, and it's hard to build a pool of skilled workers here because of a shortage of good jobs. So what mostly happens now is that locals take low level jobs, or move to the mainland for better opportunities; while high level jobs are filled - to a high extent - with people recruited from the mainland. And that has become a self-perpetuating cycle.

I personally think Hawai'i could become a major player in the alternative and emerging technologies of fossil-free energy, water purification, and waste recycling. Could. We certainly have a unique combination of resources and local needs to explore. And we've got innovative pilot projects all over the place. We could be the preferred consultants to a global market. What would it take to take all that potential to the next level and turn Hawai'i into a go-to resource center for environmentally sound technology?

Well, capital investment, obviously, and a motivating vision. But you also have to have the people to staff the mid to upper level technology jobs this would create. In a recent analysis I read about iPhone manufacture I learned that the key factor that has iPhones being built in China is not cost, per se, but the fact that China has the engineers necessary to be available on very short notice to ramp up various changes. They have a lot more flexibility in China than Apple could find in the US.

Even within the dominant industry now, tourism and hospitality, there's little training resource for natives here except the school of hard knocks. For good culinary or hotel management training one has to go off-island, and most of the execs here are imported. I think that's backwards. Hawai'i could be a resource center for the global trade, if only someone had the vision and will to bring it into being.

OK, OK, I strayed a ways off the central point, but you did ask.
Unfortunately Open, I see a couple other limiting factors to the scenario of potential you present. Goes back to the cost of living, specifically housing more than any other. But also to its natural isolation making it inconvenient ... and the fact that no matter how appealing the concept of "living in paradise" most folks, other than locals, don't adapt or even want to be so limited to begin with. Thus developing Hawaii by importing skilled workers, no, I'm not a believer.

So your scenario would work only by developing locals to be high-tech -- IF locals wanted to pursue that kind of profession / lifestyle commitment. I don't see a lot of motivation for that at present around me. But perhaps. Still, the other limitations of inconvenience by geography and the high cost competition for very limited housing kills the high-tech future.

Over all, I don't see Hawaii as "becoming" anything other than what it is.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Kahala
11,979 posts, read 16,424,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Umm, yes. You need skills to work in those areas. But my point is that those industries are limited in size and scope. They are not hiring lots of new workers on a regular basis. They are not growth industries expanding with new job openings all the time -- as happens with growth companies on the mainland. Very few, if any companies in Hawaii are growing and offering new employment. That is to say: Hawaii is a nearly static environment of very limited opportunity. If, say, a number of people lose their jobs in hotel services due to a downturn in tourism, and they want to retrain to a new profession -- say high-voltage linemen -- there are very limited, if any, opportunities for them to win employment in Hawaii. Hawaii doesn't have dozens of new industries opening new plants that demand new powerlines ... etc.
A lot of the companies in this article growing in Hawaii require special skills especially with renewable energy and tech skills. Some of these firms are growing fast.

Hawaii?s Fastest 50 Class of 2011 - Pacific Business News
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:36 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,174,053 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whtviper1 View Post
A lot of the companies in this article growing in Hawaii require special skills especially with renewable energy and tech skills. Some of these firms are growing fast.

Hawaii?s Fastest 50 Class of 2011 - Pacific Business News
Just scanned through that quickly ... Hey! I Like it! Good info, thanks And argues well against my impression of the limitations in the state. Good example of how the retraining strategy would pay off better than I would have imagined here. As I wrote earlier, I am in favor of the concept -- just wondering how well it could pay in Hawaii compared to mainland "growth" regions.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:58 AM
 
Location: Kahala
11,979 posts, read 16,424,019 times
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HONOLULU—The Hawai‘i State Department of Labor & Industrial Relations announced today that the seasonally adjusted unemployment rate for March remained at 6.4 percent.

There were 616,400 employed and 42,250 unemployed in March, for a total seasonally adjusted labor force of 658,650.

I thought I'd throw that out there as it is a reminder there are a lot of people looking for work in Hawaii. Jobs are not as easy to find as you may think.
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