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I drive a TDI, so don't jump on me, but you're being a bit simplistic. Hawaii is one of the easiest places on earth to run your whole house off photovoltaics...including a fast charger in your garage. There is no one to one correlation between "all people who own electric cars" and "wastes fossil fuels to charge things." It's silly to even imply that. Heck, in the Pacific Northwest of the USA and Canada and certain parts of eastern Canada between 85% and 100% of many communities electrical needs are met by hydro plants...which burn nothing.
I'm not saying you don't have a point, but be careful about being overly generalized in your brevity. It's a complex issue and there are no short answers, period. All the short answers are just different versions of "I'm being a lazy thinker and I wanna sound like I'm right."
While this is true, imagine putting the entire vehicle grid onto this system. It would simply overload the capacity, not to mention that the cost of these cars for now is quite prohibitive. If you think electricity is expensive now, just wait until you see what it would cost when everything is electric (e.g. photovoltaic).
However, even with that, the batteries used in the construction of these vehicles are many times worse than than the production of combustion engines & the use of fossil fuels. I don't think people really have yet to comprehend how destructive the batteries are to the environment yet...It's like recycling. Oh, it sounds good, until you investigate and find that recycling uses more resources and energy than to produce one of the goods from the raw materials in the first place. The heart is in the right place, but the brain has yet to catch up.
So many wrong things here, one would think you're an oil industry shill.
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Originally Posted by Wegandi
... imagine putting the entire vehicle grid onto this system. It would simply overload the capacity
No it wouldn't because it can't and won't happen overnight. And even once every house has an electric car plugged in during the night, the grid would actually be more efficient because the load would be more even.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wegandi
If you think electricity is expensive now, just wait until you see what it would cost when everything is electric (e.g. photovoltaic).
We're talking about 2 different things here: electric cars charged from the grid, and the source of electricity on the grid. Like I said, more efficient use of the grid should not make that electricity more expensive. And yes, photovoltaics are currently more expensive than oil, but for the large scale, there are other solutions such as thermal-solar that are being developed. Look at it this way: oil peaked and will only get more expensive. It'll be great to have a solar alternative that while more expensive than the current subsidized price of oil, will not increase ever. In fact, as solar technologies (both PV and thermal) are more widely adopted, the prices should decrease.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wegandi
the batteries used in the construction of these vehicles are many times worse than than the production of combustion engines & the use of fossil fuels.
Batteries do have certain issues. But due to their nature, I don't think we'll ever see an impact as great as the Exxon Valdez, Alberta Tar Sands, or Deepwater Horizon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wegandi
recycling uses more resources and energy than to produce one of the goods from the raw materials in the first place.
This is patently false. Recycling aluminum takes a fraction of the energy of mining and smelting new aluminum. Granted, there are inefficiencies in recycling such as the shipping, but overall, the net benefit is positive. For a place like Hawaii without the industrial base (and so far from one), a better solution would be reuse. Remember when soft-drinks, beer, and milk bottles not only had a deposit, but were taken back to the bottling plant to be washed and refilled?
I'm open to being proven wrong by peer-reviewed studies (not industry lobbyists, or right-wing "think-tanks").
What with all the fracking they are doing on the mainland, all of a sudden we (as a country) have more oil than we did before. IMHO, while we have this oil, we should be doing everything possible to put systems in place that make electricity from sources other than oil. Photovoltaics are a good choice, especially in most parts of Hawaii.
So far we haven't gotten an electric car, mostly because of their high initial cost as well as their lack of longevity. When the batteries wear out, replacing them seems to be more expensive than buying a new car. So electric cars are sort of disposable cars, which isn't good. We have gotten some electric bicycles, though. If/when their batteries go down, the bicycle will still work as a bicycle and replacing the batteries isn't as significant as replacing an electric car battery. The house is now run by photovoltaics and the bicycles are charged by the same PV system, so things are all good in that area.
We have also moved into town so we don't even need a car for getting to the grocery, hardware, library, post office, etc. Arranging your life so a car isn't necessary does a lot for saving tons of money as well as increases your social interaction with other folks. We can now walk to town and chat with the folks we meet along the way or bicycle and wave. There isn't the same isolation that is typical when traveling by car.
Oahu is much easier to manage without a car, here on the Big Island, it takes a bit more planning to arrange your life that a car isn't necessary every day. We do, however, still keep one or two around just because they are useful. If an electric car were more durable, we'd get one. At this point (since we have the big PV system on the roof) it is the lack of durability of the car that is keeping us from getting one, not the cost of the electricity to run it.
This applies only to the East and West Coasts of the mainland, right now. The Tesla Model S has a range of 270 miles (in its largest battery model, about $95K). Tesla has built six free solar charging stations in Southern/Central California that can recharge 150 miles of range in 30 minutes. They also have 3 on the East Coast and plans for 100+ nationwide in the next 2 years. They are located about 150 miles from each other and placed so that you can take a coffee or lunch break while charging. The combination of initial range and charging access pretty much ends "range anxiety".
The Model S is a beautiful car, seats 7 and has large front and rear trunks. Production has ramped up to 400 cars/week and they have reservation orders with deposits for 15,000+. Owner reports are very positive. Model X coming next year will add AWD. After that they are looking at applying the same technology to a 4th generation $30K car.
Electric cars will always be more efficient and less polluting than gas cars, even if charged with coal generated power, due to the higher power plant efficiency, the ability to use excess overnite generation and the efficiency of the electric motor. As more natural gas, solar, wind and hydroelectric generation comes on they will get even cleaner.
Tesla's CEO, Elon Musk, will one day be recognized as a modern American innovator on a level with Ford, Edison and others. He is also in charge of SpaceX, which is now successfully delivering cargo to the Space Station and SolarCity, which installs residential solar for zero down.
I have ridden in a Tesla Roadster, which was like a scifi car, and driven the Leaf, which was a great feeling, particularly as one passed gas station after gas station...
And Dublin, Ohio - where I live - is getting a Tesla repair facility. See Dublin will get state .
First, there are growing pains with any new technology, especially when there are infrastructure changes involved. But early-adopters pave the way for all the advances that eventually come from pushing into new territory. And as volume rises, costs come down. We are still at the stage where you don't get into it to save money, but because you want to be involved in the technological revolution.
Second, two of the key technologies involved, solar cells and battery technology, are both on the edge of major advances that are considered by industry experts to be quite likely to be game changers. Flexible solar cells are already being used to cover the roofs of Smart Cars owned by Car2Go car sharing services in several American cities, and car charging kiosks are popping up all over their service areas. High tech companies are installing solar cell shed roofs on parking spaces for employees with electric cars to use, just for the bragging rights. With the next major leap in output from PV cells, and the next major cost reduction, I think quite a lot of folks will be ready to come on board.
And several recent breakthroughs have occurred in battery research that could dramatically raise the capacity of rechargeable batteries as well as lowering their cost. Best of all, the indications are that these developments could be brought to market fairly quickly, perhaps within just a few years.
So while solar powered cars are not a reality, and may never be, electric cars that are charged by solar energy may well be in our near future.
Remember 99% (yeah, I pulled that out of the air * ) of driving is within 20-30 miles of home. Off to work, set all day in the sun, back home. Repeat forever. Maybe go to the store or bar, then back home. I drive about 5 miles to work, 1.5 miles to the store. If I go downtown Columbus it's about 25 miles. Costco, major shopping center about 20 miles or so. Electric would be great for that kind of travel.
I've seen an article about a prototype hybrid electric car that uses compressed air instead of a battery to store power. Apparently, it works rather well.
If the expensive and polluting battery can be done away with,, then electric cars become a lot more attractive. There are companies working on it. But in the meantime, all they are doing is moving the pollution to a different location.
But in the meantime, all they are doing is moving the pollution to a different location.
This is demonstrably false in many cases. Look, just because a new technology isn't ideal, or isn't ideal for everyone, doesn't make it universally a horrible idea. Accept that, and stop repeating things that are factually incorrect just because it's easier to be angry and brief.
Not everyone's transportation needs are the same, and not everyone's electrical utilities are provided in the same manner. It's not some simple catch-phrase issue.
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) of driving is within 20-30 miles of home. Off to work, set all day in the sun, back home. Repeat forever. Maybe go to the store or bar, then back home. I drive about 5 miles to work, 1.5 miles to the store. If I go downtown Columbus it's about 25 miles. Costco, major shopping center about 20 miles or so. Electric would be great for that kind of travel. 
