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Observation: Anyone thinking of moving to Hawaii, and wondering if there is prejudice against [whoever], carefully read between the lines in this thread (well, some lines are pretty blatant up front] and you'll see that the answer is YES.
Even in ancient Hawaiʻi, Hawaiians were prejudiced against other Hawaiians, depending upon on one genealogy and "bloodlnes."
In brief, Ancient Hawaiian society was organized along the lines of a caste system. Aliʻi (chiefs and nobles) were at the top, followed by kāhuna (priests, master artisans, physicians, healers, etc.), makaʻāinana (commoners, farmers, etc.), and finally, kauwā (outcasts, pariahs, defeated warriors, slaves) at the bottom. These four main categories or castes were further organized into subcategories, e.g. "high aliʻi", "lesser aliʻi", etc. based on genealogy. Although people were born into a particular category, there was some social mobility (usually downward) that took place occasionally.
The first time pōpolo was used to describe people probably occurred before 1778. In the works Ka Poʻe Kahiko (The People of Old) and Nā Moʻololo a ka Poʻe Kahiko (Tales and Traditions of the People of Old), 19th Century Hawaiian scholar and historian Samuel Manaiākalani Kamakau refers to the offspring of low-ranking aliʻi and makaʻāinana as kūkae pōpolo ("pōpolo excreta") and hana lepo pōpolo ("pōpolo dirty work"). Despite the fact that kūkae pōpolo had a lower rank than their low-ranking aliʻi parent, they were ranked higher than their makaʻāinana parent and were still considered to be aliʻi. If viewed using modern sensibilities, it would appear that being referred to as kūkae pōpolo might be somewhat insulting -- perhaps it was, no one knows for sure. But how and why was the term pōpolo adopted to describe "black" folks?...
Observation: Anyone thinking of moving to Hawaii, and wondering if there is prejudice against [whoever], carefully read between the lines in this thread (well, some lines are pretty blatant up front] and you'll see that the answer is YES.
Meanwhile, the mix of posters to this site is what makes it more "well rounded" than if it was just a cookie-cutter answer by one segment of Hawaii's population. Yes, sometimes there are people tossing in advice who have never lived here at all, but even some of that advice might be useful to others (depending on if they stick to a topic they have knowledge about).
lol, 90% of the people that give advice in this forum aren't from here... they've been here for a few years for the most part.
lol, 90% of the people that give advice in this forum aren't from here... they've been here for a few years for the most part.
Still, even someone who has never been here can offer interesting input on some questions. [Note I said "input", not "advice on something they actually know nothing about".]
For example, someone who has only lived here a month, but just went through the moving process, could give worthwhile advice regarding moving hints. Probably better advice than someone who's lived in Hawaii their whole life but never even made the move to another island. Someone who has been here only 24 hours but has been through the animal quarantine process can give worthwhile advice on that topic. Etc.
This is a site promoted as: "If you ever need to research any city, zip code, or neighborhood for any reason, from considering a move there to just checking where somebody you know is staying, this is the site for you." I'm not surprised that many non-residents and new residents check in here.
I've always heard they were referred to as "pōpolo" because there is a small black berry by that name and there isn't a lot of black things to refer to. Although, doesn't "eleele" mean something black as well, though? There is a really nice Hawaiian term for something that is smooth and black but they didn't pick that one.
I know of three folks around here that are All Blacks (which is also the name of New Zealand's beloved rugby team) and another few who are hapa, but they don't seem to be a very large part of the demographic.
I've always heard they were referred to as "pōpolo" because there is a small black berry by that name and there isn't a lot of black things to refer to. Although, doesn't "eleele" mean something black as well, though? There is a really nice Hawaiian term for something that is smooth and black but they didn't pick that one.
I know of three folks around here that are All Blacks (which is also the name of New Zealand's beloved rugby team) and another few who are hapa, but they don't seem to be a very large part of the demographic.
When I was attending Kamehameha Schools in the ninth grade I over heard a girl use the words "haole eleele" to describe an uncle who married into her family. I asked her what that meant.
She said "haole eleele" was the proper way to say black person in Hawaiian, whereas "popolo" was slang.
That was the 1st and last time I heard those adjectives used instead of "popolo". Now that I think about it, I have never heard "popolo" used in front of a black person so I inferred that it was a somewhat disrespectful term, whereas I have always heard people using "haole" freely in front of whites. Example, this is my "haole" husband, girlfriend, auntie, etc., etc..
I've always heard they were referred to as "pōpolo" because there is a small black berry by that name and there isn't a lot of black things to refer to. Although, doesn't "eleele" mean something black as well, though? There is a really nice Hawaiian term for something that is smooth and black but they didn't pick that one.
That's the "folk wisdom" that most in Hawaiʻi hear concerning the reason the term "pōpolo" was used to describe "black" folks. However, there are plenty of "black things" to refer to in Hawaiʻi and the berries of the pōpolo plant are called pūʻili, ʻolohua, and hua pōpolo in the Hawaiian language. As you mentioned, the word ʻeleʻele (black, dark) is also used to describe "black" folks as in haole ʻeleʻele (dark foreigner). In addition, there's the term pāʻele that I discussed in a earlier post and more poetic terms, such as panopano ("dark" as in clouds), polina ("shiny black"), ʻelekū ("entirely black"), etc. However, each of the Hawaiian terms to describe "black" folks have assorted kaona (hidden meanings, concealed references) and nuances. For instance, haole 'ele'ele can be akin to calling someone an "Oreo" (black on the outside and white on the inside), haole pāʻele can be akin to calling someone "African American", pā'ele can be akin to calling someone "Black", etc.
There's a probable linkage between the kūkae pōpolo, the medicinal use of the pōpolo plant, and early "black" folks in Hawaiʻi...
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotzcatz
I know of three folks around here that are All Blacks (which is also the name of New Zealand's beloved rugby team) and another few who are hapa, but they don't seem to be a very large part of the demographic.
Other than members of the New Zealand rugby team, I haven't heard many folks refer to themselves as "All Blacks." Hapa (half, portion, part) is an interesting term when folks use it to describe people. Technically, "part-black" folks are called "hapa pāʻele", but few bother with making that distinction because of the "one drop" rule and other factors.
I just had to comment on this one. From what I experienced, african americans who move to hawaii are split into 2 groups, military and non-military...... Military, for people in hawaii they are very easy to peg and figure out. Non-military....well.....are just so much more of a question mark. In just moving here (which is just rare for african americans), be prepared to get asked many questions, because as it has been said on this forum africans americans who are non-military are HIGHLY rare here. Most african americans who live here are ex-military and not transplants...... I am still put into the group of military due to my appearance I think and I see shock upon their face when I correct them.
I have been here for about 7-8 months now and the one thing that I have noticed is that I do not sense the racial tension here like I did on the mainland. You get the racial tension from time to time but mostly from tourists in town more than anywhere or lolos. You will have to get used to being in honolulu and having tourists and children look at you like you are an alien, lol.
People here pretty much judge you on your personality and how you are adapting to things more than anything. It is SEVERELY frowned upon to try to bring the mainland to hawaii which is what some mainlanders do. But many co-workers teach me words, traditions, customs and manners here in hawaii. We leave our shoes outside and eat rice with nearly every meal, lol. But I always loved rice and somen even back in detroit, so I love the food here.
So be yourself and treat others the way you wish to be treated, which is so key....especially here, and you should be fine.
As for Muniz comment that african americans are the cause of violence and degradation in areas you truly need to check your ignorance and open a book about the history of Africa. You would be HIGHLY surprised, especially Egyptian history.
A few "interesting" things you guys may experience (I did) is:
1. Hawaii LOVES Bob Marley, they play his songs, sell choke amounts of his merchandise, even drinks which are popular with kids, lol. Bob would be proud of all the ALOHA for him.
2. When other African Americans see you, they may be overly friendly and smile and even start talking to you, unlike what you would experience in the mainland where some african americans avoid eye contact.
bronzephoenix, I'm just wondering and no offense meant, why did you choose to use the [arguably negative] term "popolos" in your title of this tread as a self-description? What I mean is, how did you come up with using that term about yourself? I've NEVER heard an African-American refer to themselves in Hawaii using that term.
Again, no offense is meant, I'm truly wondering.
I never referred to myself as pololo & never will. It was simply the subject of this thread. It was brought to my attention while doing some research about the islands and I found it interesting. Even more interesting was all of the riff-raff and hostility it drew in... Not my intent at all, BUT it taught me more than I expected about what to expect.
I have a question regarding girls...as a young black (or rather biracial) male.
I'll be moving to Hawaii for grad school. It has a program that is only offered at two other places in the rest of the U.S. I have an academic tie to the UofH. I like the place, strategically, as it lends itself nicely to other areas I'm pursuing. And the sun won't hurt.
Anyway, I'll be single in all likelihood when I get there. And I plan to stay there for a pretty long time. Why not?
But, I'd also like to start a family. To me, race means little else other than whatever meaning people give it. I'm hoping my wife is awesome...call me naive.
Anyway, how significantly will race play a role to that end?
Also, perhaps relevantly...I'm African. People tend to look at me differently when they realize I'm not African American...though that's BS..but whatever.
Do single black girls not exist?
I imagine single white girls won't mind much, it's been my experience that most don't care as long as you are genuine.
Other biracials?
The assorted Asians?
And are there even Africans on the island? Lol
At the end of the day, I just want to find one that appreciates me for me.
Last edited by dub dub II; 07-04-2012 at 05:51 PM..
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