Hawaii is not a state, I said it before I will say it again (house, living)

[Kawena]

Ok, so I had posted and said it before Hawaii is not a state, well this time a Judge said it... more so He said the Kingdom of Hawaii is still in existence. If the Kingdom of Hawaii is still in existence... the state of Hawaii cannot exist..... right?? right!!!


“Once judicial notice was taken of the evidence that the Hawaiian Kingdom continues to exist as a state, it is considered indisputable and true,” according to Kaiama. “Judicial notice is a very significant ruling on evidence and when the court took judicial notice, it said that it is conclusive that the Hawaiian Kingdom exists,” said Kaiama. [MOD CUT/copyright violation]

State of Hawai

[Kracer]

I believe you.

Always felt Obama was on a vendetta against the US on behalf of HI.

If you read up on HI history, it apeared HI was 'offered a deal they could not refuse', vs embracing the US with open arms.

[Rakin]

I agree and also that Texas is still an Independent Country.

I want to be Ambassador to the country of Hawaii in a State owned house on the beach.
I promise a long history of peace and love between the 2 countries.

[hawaiian by heart]

Originally Posted by Kawena

Ok, so I had posted and said it before Hawaii is not a state, well this time a Judge said it... more so He said the Kingdom of Hawaii is still in existence. If the Kingdom of Hawaii is still in existence... the state of Hawaii cannot exist..... right?? right!!!


“Once judicial notice was taken of the evidence that the Hawaiian Kingdom continues to exist as a state, it is considered indisputable and true,” according to Kaiama. “Judicial notice is a very significant ruling on evidence and when the court took judicial notice, it said that it is conclusive that the Hawaiian Kingdom exists,” said Kaiama. [MOD CUT/copyright violation]

State of Hawai

It will be interesting to see how our american cousins handle change this time around if it comes. Will they accept it or will they try to influence politics in there favor again or call the marines?

[Jonah K]

Originally Posted by Kawena

Ok, so I had posted and said it before Hawaii is not a state, well this time a Judge said it... more so He said the Kingdom of Hawaii is still in existence. If the Kingdom of Hawaii is still in existence... the state of Hawaii cannot exist..... right?? right!!!

"Judicial notice" of the "Kingdom of Hawaiʻi" doesn't necessarily mean that Hawaʻi is not a U.S. state. In a nutshell, a fact is not indisputable simply because it has been "judicially noticed." The primary function of "judicial notice" is to "streamline" a particular trial by removing issues that are tangental to its outcome. In the English and Dudoit case, Judge Cardoza found that the existence of the "Kingdom of Hawaiʻi" has little bearing on a criminal court in the "State of Hawaiʻi," since the both petitioners are "U.S. citizens" and "Hawaiʻi State residents" who fall under the jurisdiction of its legal system. If English and Dudoit had renounced their U.S. citizenship before incurring criminal charges and possessed valid "Kingdom of Hawaiʻi" passports, their "motion to dismiss" might've passed muster.

[hotzcatz]

This is getting pretty close to the Hawaiian sovereignty issue which is supposed to be discussed over on the Politics Forum, or History Forum or even the Controversies Forum instead of discussing it here. (Just trying to save Mikala from having to act the heavy and shut the thread down.) Maybe the whole thread can be or should be moved? I'm not sure how you can discuss Hawaii not being a state without running into politicalness.

When folks move to Hawaii, if they aren't aware of how it became a state as well as it's current "state of the state" (or as Kawena noted the "state of the not-state") as it were, are they are going to be confused by the way some things are done as well as attitudes and such?

I'd imagine there's some of the same sort of social tensions around Indian Nations on the mainland? Although, perhaps not? What about Alaska? They came into the U.S. around the same time and have a lot of similarities with Hawaii by being remote and already having folks living there. How important is it for new folks moving to Hawaii to be aware of the history of Hawaii?

I think the history of how Hawaii has become what it is today has made it significantly different than other states. Add that to the remoteness of it's location and effectively, it can be quite similar to moving to a foreign country so Hawaii can feel like "not a state" no matter how the politics are set up.

[whtviper1]

Having read the link and completely wasting my time - it read like a bunch of nutcases over on Maui.

[hawaiian by heart]

@Jonah k,

Are you familiar with how many treaties where signed with the U.S Goverment and Native peoples in history? Do you know how many where violated by U.S Goverment? Now i imagine if our government complied with all the treaties? I imagine america would look different today and the state of Indigenous peoples of our country would be better? Do you agree?

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by hawaiian by heart

Are you familiar with how many treaties where signed with the U.S Goverment and Native peoples in history? Do you know how many where violated by U.S Goverment?

You keep acting like their is a treaty saying the US would never annex Hawaii.

[Jonah K]

Originally Posted by hawaiian by heart

@Jonah k,

Are you familiar with how many treaties where signed with the U.S Goverment and Native peoples in history? Do you know how many where violated by U.S Goverment? Now i imagine if our government complied with all the treaties? I imagine america would look different today and the state of Indigenous peoples of our country would be better? Do you agree?

I'm quite familiar with the U.S. Government's dismal record concerning treaties with Native peoples and realize that things would probably be different if those treaties were honored. However, I'm more concerned about Dexter Kaiama's and UH Prof. Bill Chang's somewhat erroneous interpretation of the impact of "judicial notice." Here's a link to a PDF of the "Petition for Writ of Mandamus" that Kaiama filed with the Hawaiʻi Supreme Court.
http://hawaiiankingdom.org/pdf/Manda...ish_Dudoit.pdf

While Kaiama's "writ" is somewhat interesting, it becomes somewhat problematic when it reaches "Issue #10" (page 11) where he asserts that "by judicial notice the prosecution waived all arguments claiming the Court has subject matter jurisdiction." Moreover, "Issue #11" in which Kaiama claims that the appropriate venue is a "Military Court" is just plain silly and might have an "unintended result."