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Actually, what might work would be something similar to what the Kilauea did. Sort of a passenger carrying cargo ship. It wouldn't be fast, it's a cargo ship. It wouldn't have to have the amenities of a cruise ship but some sort of meager sleeping spaces as well as some eating facilities would be good. Probably somewhat similar to what you'd get on a train. Big comfortable seats that people could sleep in if they didn't want to pay for a separate sleeping cabin. The ship could carry cargo as well as passengers to help it be profitable. Would a passenger barge work? Be less expensive than a whole ship.
The Superferry was a private company - at this point it is safe to say private companies are scared off due to the Superferry fiasco.
Of course its the superferry fiasco thats the cause and not that it isn't profitable. Unlike other business being put out of business because the cost of land is high and other competition. The superferry has no competition and only high fuel costs. But who knows maybe the 6th time it might work?
Isnt that how it works? Cram a triangle piece into the round piece hole intil it fits or works?
Actually, what might work would be something similar to what the Kilauea did. Sort of a passenger carrying cargo ship. It wouldn't be fast, it's a cargo ship. It wouldn't have to have the amenities of a cruise ship but some sort of meager sleeping spaces as well as some eating facilities would be good. Probably somewhat similar to what you'd get on a train. Big comfortable seats that people could sleep in if they didn't want to pay for a separate sleeping cabin. The ship could carry cargo as well as passengers to help it be profitable. Would a passenger barge work? Be less expensive than a whole ship.
The biggest expense is fuel. If you can find a way to comp for the cost of fuel i don't see why not. Maybe an alternative fuel source? But technology wise i don't think we are there yet.
Last edited by hawaiian by heart; 04-14-2015 at 12:21 PM..
The demise of the Superferry has nothing to do with profitability - rather, radical extremists on Kauai.
But your ignoring the other 5 water ferrys the islands had and failed. I bet you a box of malasadas that even if the so called radicals of Kauai didnt protest that today the superferry would be partially or almost completely financed by Hawaii taxpayers in its daily operations. Kinda exactly whats going on with lightrail right now. If someone could find an cheaper alternative fuel source etc then maybe.
By all means if people want a superferry then go for it, but find a way where others are not paying for it and it doesn't impact the environment alot. Such a high price to keep up with others.
The Superferry was a private company - at this point it is safe to say private companies are scared off due to the Superferry fiasco.
That's not the point. The point is, if it could be done profitably, you'd have private companies lining up working toward getting the approvals they need to run the business. But they aren't.
And so now the State is thinking they might like to run the Ferry system with "low cost fares". Most state governments are not known for there ability to efficiently run most things. They tend to end up being bloated bureaucracies running programs that require large public subsidies.
Again, I don't see a compelling state interest advanced that would lead me to believe the state should be getting into this business.
The point is, if it could be done profitably, you'd have private companies lining up working toward getting the approvals they need to run the business.
I don't agree. The lesson from the Superferry is you have to do a multi-year environmental study that is so prohibitively expensive and time consuming is that the only entity that can afford something like that is the State government - hence, why rail is so expensive.
Nobody is going to be willing to do all the upfront costs over years a something that might be denied anyway.
The lesson learned should be to not usurp any type of government regulation for greed or profit, like it did for the Superferry the first time around.
The Hawaii Supreme Court ruled in August 2007 that the Department of Transporation erred in not requiring the Superferry to first conduct an environmental impact statement before starting service. The study was triggered by the state spending $40 million on harbor improvements, including barges and ramps for the Superferry to unload its passengers and vehicles. Heeding the high court’s instruction, a lower court ordered the Superferry to suspend service until it finished the environmental review.*Lingle responded by calling a special session of the Legislature in October 2007 in which state lawmakers passed a law to circumvent the court’s ruling and let the Superferry run while completing the study.*Environmental groups appealed to the*Supreme Court, which agreed in March 2009 that the law was unconstitutional.*
The Superferry immediately laid off 200-plus employees and filed*for bankruptcy two months later.
What also is interesting is who is really spearheading the return of superferry and that is the independent party governor canadidate for Hawaii Mufi Hannemann, but Hannemann’s*most recent financial disclosure report shows he owns stock in two companies that are working on the design and development of advanced ship hull forms and researching lifting hull technologies.
Anyway 40 million here, 6 billion there, 100 million there in state spending for different big money projects, but do you find it odd that you can't get decent health care in maui or decent doctors here? Anyway another topic.
If an inter-island ferry is such a great idea with so much demand, I would expect a private company would have invested in a boat and begun regularly scheduled service to meet the demand ... even if it was a passenger service only.
That's exactly what it was. At the bottom of this post is a link to National Geographic video on the ferry. A private company invested hundreds of millions and went through all the proper permitting processes, only to be bankrupted when people filed lawsuits over it and managed to get it shut down after the fact, based on claims it might not be good for the environment, without anyone proving it.
What I found disturbing was that the company spent millions going through all the proper permit processes, all of which were granted, invested hundreds of millions based on those permits, only to be shut down and bankrupted after the fact.
If that does not bother people, imagine that you as an individual obtain all the proper permits to build a house, spend your life savings on it, and then some neighbors sue you because they don't like your house and force you to tear it down and you lose your life savings. Shouldn't those lawsuits:
1. Take place before the permit is granted?
2. If filed afterwards, shouldn't the burden of evidence be on the people filing the suits?
Personally I think the company should be able to recoup their hundreds of millions.
To be clear, my issue is not that there are people opposed to the ferry. My issue is that there should be a period during which opposition can be mounted, once the opposition fails and permits are issued, the burden to stop a project should be much higher.
The Hawaii Supreme Court ruled in August 2007 that the Department of Transporation erred in not requiring the Superferry to first conduct an environmental impact statement before starting service
My thinking is if the department of transportation erred, then let them reimburse the company that invested hundreds of millions based on that error. Just as business should be held accountable for their actions, so should government agencies. The ferry situation was a fiasco.
Or order the environmental impact statement be done, but allow the company to continue to operate in the mean time, since it was the state of Hawaii that made the error.
Last edited by Green_Mountain; 04-14-2015 at 03:28 PM..
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