Don't Understand the Moana Kea Issue (construction, income, cost)

[Kawena]

Originally Posted by hawaiian by heart

Oh god, anything other then pro growth, pro build is radical talk.

Yeah Office of Hawaiian Affairs signed off on it so its got the support of native hawaiians. Uhmmm seriously. I don't know if i should cry or lmao with that.

Just because OHA signed off on it, it does not mean it has the support of its constituents. Honolulu Star-Advertiser Poll Archive - Honolulu Star-Advertiser Poll System - page 4

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by Kawena

Just because OHA signed off on it, it does not mean it has the support of its constituents. Honolulu Star-Advertiser Poll Archive - Honolulu Star-Advertiser Poll System - page 4

Except that poll doesn't represent its constituents. It is just a run of the mill - general poll.

And, OHA in Hawaii is the representative body for Native Hawaiians in Hawaii whether they like it or not.

Not much different if you are Republican - Obama is President, whether you like it or not.

[hawaiian by heart]

Originally Posted by Kawena

Just because OHA signed off on it, it does not mean it has the support of its constituents. Honolulu Star-Advertiser Poll Archive - Honolulu Star-Advertiser Poll System - page 4

I know uncle OHA is equal to the BIA for native americans, none trust either.

[hawaiian by heart]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

Except that poll doesn't represent its constituents. It is just a run of the mill - general poll.

And, OHA in Hawaii is the representative body for Native Hawaiians in Hawaii whether they like it or not.

Not much different if you are Republican - Obama is President, whether you like it or not.

The OHA is just like BIA both government agancies who handle native issues but nevertheless government.

[smarino]

Spirituality, religion, whatever you want to call it, is a personal thing. It's not really based on something outside of yourself. To depend, or think you depend, on something outside of yourself, whether it be a cross, a mountain, etc seems sort of, for lack of a better word, incorrect. So what happens if you're not near a mountain, cross, whatever? No more the spirituality? Think about it.

I know some of those people involved in the protests. Misguided might be my way of looking at all that, but I'm sure they think it's necessary. Jim Albertini is a very active Hawaii activist who is not involved in this particular issue, so I am going to mention him because he isn't going to stir up all the stuff that someone involved in religion would, and use him as a sort of parallel example of the Mauna Kea activists.

Jim's OK, and he deeply believes in fighting injustice. He spent some time in a federal prison for a US military protest in Pearl Harbor over 30 years ago, so he's a "real" activist for sure. But a lot of this is show boating in my mind. That's my personal opinion and I'm entitled to it, just as Jim is entitled to his. He was forever trying to get the wife and I to go out w/ his group and hold signs and such on the road when the US was involved in the Iraqi invasion. I, like many people, thought that US military invasion was a crock and needed to be stopped. But my thinking was, just exactly how does standing on the side of the road w/ a sign do anything about that? It's good to be hooked up w/ other people who believe what you believe in, I'll grant you that. Solidarity, friendship, support, these are all good things. But I told him that since it wasn't actually going to help anything, then I had other things to do. He felt differently, and that's fine. The wife finally consented to standing on the side of the road in downtown Hilo w/ a hand lettered sign that said "RESIST", more to appease Jim than anything else, and I have a quite funny picture of that experience. What the heck. It made him happy, and required little effort on her part. And therein is my problem w/ all this. It requires little effort to hold a sign, spear, whatever, and it does little good. There are ways to do more, and they all require a lot of hard work w/ very, very little chance of success. Holding a sign on the side of the road isn't going to stop the military from doing squat. I think that trying to contact the people in charge of things and talking to them might stand more of a chance of success than that, and the chances of anything actually changing, in any instance, are slim to none. But if you believe in something then you do what you think you have to do.

That's probably part of the Mauna Kea issue. Those people, rightly or wrongly, believe in what they're doing, and it's their right to protest peacefully whether you, I or anyone else thinks they're doing any good or not. That's how I understand it. You never know, it may have some effect. The massive protests of the 60's and 70's concerning the Vietnam war (whoops, I mean the Vietnam police action) drew international media attention that helped to get us out of there. However, the images of the Buddhist monk who set himself on fire, along w/ the picture of the naked young girl who had stripped off her clothing to try to escape the napalm bombing on her and her village, were much stronger than all the massive protests put together. I will never get those images out of my mind. So maybe individual action is more powerful than group action when it comes to actual, concrete change.

I still think that to a certain degree a lot of it is show boating though. It's more about bringing attention to themselves than to the cause, and that's what I think about a lot of these sorts of things. Personally, I have a history of working in politics to try to effect change and have done it for decades, but I keep my mouth shut about it. It's not about me. Roshi Robert Aitken (1917 - 2010), the founder of the Buddhist Diamond Sangha on O'ahu, also protested the Iraqi invasion, but his was an individual protest. He sat near the road in the park downtown, just across from where my wife held that crazy sign, and did a silent meditation nearly every weekend for a long, long time and got nearly no attention. No one cared about an old man in a dark robe sitting in a park w/ not even a sign. Well, he may have had a tiny little sign now that I think about it. Very small, almost like a card. I can find no photos of Bob sitting in that park anywhere on the web, so I was very remiss in not photographing him at the time. I knew Bob from past sits at his place and told him more than few times that he was getting too old for that, he worked hard enough on his other stuff, and maybe he should go rest somewhere instead of sitting there in an upright meditation posture for so long every weekend. Besides, it wasn't going to do any good. He just smiled and said he knew that, but he was going to do it anyway :}

[whtviper1]

As protests ramped up again today, I started wondering - how do the protestors support themselves? Is someone funding them? I find it hard to believe they are all so wealthy they can just hang out and sleep in cars every night without any money. They can't have that much vacation time banked. It seems like a lot of people who have time to protest during working hours.

[wikiwikirunner]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

As protests ramped up again today, I started wondering - how do the protestors support themselves? Is someone funding them? I find it hard to believe they are all so wealthy they can just hang out and sleep in cars every night without any money. They can't have that much vacation time banked. It seems like a lot of people who have time to protest during working hours.

wondered this myself.. someone should write an article on that. It looks like crews were not able to get past the lines of people..

[Jonah K]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

As protests ramped up again today, I started wondering - how do the protestors support themselves? Is someone funding them? I find it hard to believe they are all so wealthy they can just hang out and sleep in cars every night without any money. They can't have that much vacation time banked. It seems like a lot of people who have time to protest during working hours.

They're being funded by Auntie Kekau (along with a few others)…
EXCLUSIVE: Mauna Kea protest benefactor - Hawaii News Now - KGMB and KHNL

[wikiwikirunner]

Originally Posted by Jonah K

They're being funded by Auntie Kekau (along with a few others)…
EXCLUSIVE: Mauna Kea protest benefactor - Hawaii News Now - KGMB and KHNL

Still.. how can they all afford to go 30 days without work? Did they all quit their jobs?

[Jonah K]

Originally Posted by wikiwikirunner

Still.. how can they all afford to go 30 days without work? Did they all quit their jobs?

None of the protestors quit their "jobs" -- some work for organizations and businesses that support the protest, some are "self-employed", and others are "unemployed."