Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yes, of course I agree it should be very expensive to live here... and guess what, IT IS.
Except it isn't - if you got out around the world a bit, you'd actually come to realize that. It is artificially cheap here.
The fact that basic goods and services are on near parity with the West Coast doesn't make sense. And housing is a relative bargain compared to much of the West.
And housing is a relative bargain compared to much of the West.
Not really, in my opinion. Particularly if you're comparing the quality of the home you get along with the price of the home.
Other west cost cities have a large inventory of reasonably priced suburban area's where you can get a home of high quality for a decent price and still make a reasonable commute in to work in the city.
Oahu doesn't have that sort of suburban inventory to choose from. And the quality of what you get on Oahu can be pretty poor compared to what you can find for the same price in many West Coast areas.
Even in Napa, Ca where I spend a lot of time, you can still buy a nicely built modest single family home for $600,000. It will far exceed the quality of the single family home you can find on Oahu for the same price.
Except it isn't - if you got out around the world a bit, you'd actually come to realize that. It is artificially cheap here.................................
Ah, not really.
New business formations are flat lined i.e., new businesses and businesses retiring are, more or less at parity. No significant business creation growth.
A net out migration of people leaving the state i.e., more residents are leaving the state versus arriving and taking up residency. Yes, small in number, however people move to where there is growth and opportunity.
Home ownership in the state is declining.
Pricing parities – Hawaii is at an eye-watering No.1 (2016) in the nation in terms of the price levels for the cost of goods and services compared to the other 49 states.
Per capital personal income in Hawaii is a measly 2% higher than the national average of $49,246 per year (2016), however yearly personal consumption expenditures is at a stunning $45,123 per year (2016).
Hard to fathom? You can find much of the above on the State of Hawaii Business, Economic Development and Tourism website.
It does not paint a particularly compelling picture that suggests raising taxes is a good idea....especially if you plan on being re-elected.
pj737 is correct, you remove the eight plus years of robust tourist dollar growth, and Hawaii's overly depended upon tourist based economy along with the tax base would crater. Anyone here still recall the post 9/11 tourist economy and effects on the overall state economy...?
Anyone here still recall the post 9/11 tourist economy and effects on the overall state economy...?
I do - the impact wasn't nearly as severe as the 2008 economic meltdown - the impact was mostly Sept - Dec 2001, by 2004 tourism was already back to 2000 levels - and in 2005 all tourism records were broken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain Monkey
Pricing parities – Hawaii is at an eye-watering No.1 (2016) in the nation in terms of the price levels for the cost of goods and services compared to the other 49 states.
Per capital personal income in Hawaii is a measly 2% higher than the national average of $49,246 per year (2016), however yearly personal consumption expenditures is at a stunning $45,123 per year (2016).
Hard to fathom?
None of that is hard to fathom - it is the most remote island in the world - it should have the highest price levels, albeit they aren't far off the West Coast. And the fact that personal income is even on par with the mainland is amazing on its own. I don't think people realize how good they have it in Hawaii - that's my point, the fact you can even make comparisons to the mainland is stunning to me.
It is interesting, at least to me - that people find Hawaii expensive given its location in the world.
Last edited by whtviper1; 03-19-2018 at 04:58 PM..
Even in Napa, Ca where I spend a lot of time, you can still buy a nicely built modest single family home for $600,000. It will far exceed the quality of the single family home you can find on Oahu for the same price.
Napa is to SF is to what the North Shore is to Honolulu - you realistically can't commute into SF from Napa - certainly not into Silicon Valley.
In SF, for $600K you are luck to get a 500sq ft studio condo, you can certainly do much better with a condo in Honolulu than SF
Napa is to SF is to what the North Shore is to Honolulu - you realistically can't commute into SF from Napa - certainly not into Silicon Valley.
In SF, for $600K you are luck to get a 500sq ft studio condo, you can certainly do much better with a condo in Honolulu than SF
You said “housing is a relative bargain compared to much of the West”. Now you want to cherry pick San Francisco. Fact is, the majority of the west coast you can find a large inventory of reasonably priced and well built single family homes that are both better priced and better quality than you fill find in and around Oahu for the same price point.
$600,000 will buy a pretty tragic looking single family house on Oahu. On “much of the West coast”, you can find great homes for that price point.
You said “housing is a relative bargain compared to much of the West”. Now you want to cherry pick San Francisco. Fact is, the majority of the west coast you can find a large inventory of reasonably priced and well built single family homes that are both better priced and better quality than you fill find in and around Oahu for the same price point.
$600,000 will buy a pretty tragic looking single family house on Oahu. On “much of the West coast”, you can find great homes for that price point.
Fine, while I'm skeptical that most didn't know what I meant since I was making a comparison to Honolulu - I compare Honolulu to to Seattle, San Francisco to San Jose Highway 101 corridor, LA, San Diego......essentially the West Coast urban areas. All those places will buy you equally tragic or worst places than Honolulu.
"Artificially"? You've lost me. Being in an extremely remote location does not mean the cost of living needs to be as high or higher than many of the high cost of living "mainland" cities you've lived in or visited. Obviously there is a large enough population (permanent and transitional) with discretionary and non-discretionary income to support the economically viable establishment of many businesses with massive purchasing power here that also operate nationally (and globally) providing us goods that are similarly priced to those in the mainland.
These businesses bring the supply because we provide the demand with a population base that supports it. Further, transportation and shipping logistics technology has improved dramatically over the years (this is a byproduct of this neat thing called globalization) making it viable to move many goods over long distances, efficiently and inexpensively (relative to the past). In the past, businesses would need to move huge volumes of the same product (when moving good over long distances) to drive the cost of that product down to the point where it's cost viable - not today. Unmanned electrically propelled ships and drones in the not-too-distant future will further drive down the cost of moving these goods ultimately driving down the cost of goods in even more remote and less populated cities.
Remember, it's 2018. Not 1998.
What is causing our cost of living to be artificially low? Can you give us some examples? Is there some invisible fund that secretly feeds the coffers of local businesses and our local government ultimately driving the cost of everything down? Inquiring minds want to know...
What is causing our cost of living to be artificially low? Can you give us some examples?
Sure, In my opinion most goods and services and housing are priced 25-50% less than what they should be....
Taxes are just plain too low here - property taxes closer to 1%, GET closer to 9%, higher state tax income tax rates can all help balance the inequity.....
In my opinion - island life would be overall better with a more fair and higher tax base.....
Having lived in Sydney, Munich, Tokyo - for a year a piece, taxed much higher than Hawaii and more expensive, I believe the standard of living overall is much better.....
The other aspect that keeps prices artificially low on Oahu - military spending, billions and billions per year....
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
