U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Hawaii
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-27-2020, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Kahala
11,970 posts, read 16,390,236 times
Reputation: 5988

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arktikos View Post
United Airlines website is showing several non stop flights from LAX to HNL starting in June.
They haven't updated the schedule yet. They'll happily take your money and cancel your flight later.

From the DOT order:

We find that granting United’s request for exemption as it concerns Hilo, Kona, Lihue, and Kahului, Hawaii, is warranted under the provisions of Order 2020-4-2, insofar as it would allow the air carrier to suspend service temporarily to these points from its Service Obligation. United’s service to these points requires the use of large aircraft with long flight times, and the imposition of Hawaii’s mandatory 14-day quarantine order for all travelers to or within Hawaii severely impacts passenger travel. Moreover, various Hawaiian State and local government officials have submitted filings in Docket DOT-OST-2020-0037 noting the existence of the 14-day quarantine period and the goal of minimizing the number of visitors to Hawaii until the current coronavirus (COVID-19) public health emergency has ended. Further, United will continue to provide scheduled service to Honolulu, Hawaii. In light of all of the above concerns, it would not be reasonable or practicable for United to serve Hilo, Kona, Lihue, and Kahului, Hawaii under the terms of Order 2020-4-2.
Rate this post positively

 
Old 04-27-2020, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Lahaina, Hi.
5,656 posts, read 3,790,937 times
Reputation: 10086
Slightly off-topic but Norwegian Airlines just announced that they will not resume service until April 2021 and their full flight schedule won't resume until January 2022.

I hope this is not a harbinger of what's to come.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 04-28-2020, 11:03 AM
 
Location: On the water.
20,741 posts, read 13,745,180 times
Reputation: 18550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyfinestbxtf View Post
So I’m incorrect that the left strives to fundamentally transform this nation into something else? That’s a conspiracy theory to you? Their entire world view is antithetical to our Constitution and to Americanism.

Yes, I have heard of them. Bill Kristol is a never Trumper, David Brooks is an ignoramus and never Trumper who should be completely ignored and George Will has lost his mind. Explains a lot.

HW Bush was a RINO and all about the establishment. He too and their entire family are establishment who all hated Trump because Trump is anti-establishment. The fact is, none of them were true conservatives where President Trump is. And John Kasich is the biggest RINO of them all. I don’t think that guy has one conservative bone in his body, but yet here he is pretending to be a conservative. He’s also a never Trumper and a chameleon . I’m actually quite surprised with President Trump. I had my doubts.

I agree with your position on states rights and a strong border. The thing with Federalism is, it’s dead and has been dead for a long time. We have the SCOTUS to thank for that in their decision back in 1942 in Wickard vs Filburn.

Agreed, we have become a nanny state that the left promotes and all it really is to me is buying votes. It’s about power to them. The more people dependent on the government the more powerful the government becomes. Prosperity is kryptonite to the left.

Fair enough, you are not a leftist. With that said, I’m a clear thinking Constitutional conservative. My world view is philosophical in nature and not ideological. I would say I’m pretty consistent in my thoughts and my positions, but can only be changed if legitimate, logical, and rational evidence is presented, then and only then my position can change on a matter. For a while I thought abortion was a woman’s choice, but it was up to each and every state to decide on abortion laws, not the federal government. That seems to hold true today. But, as I learned more of the science of a child in the womb and coupled with Christianity, a child in the womb is exactly that, a human being. So I no longer believed it was a woman’s choice to have an abortion because there is a third party involved in that decision too. That would be the child in the womb. They have a right to choose. Science has proved life begins at fertilization and the Bible is in agreement with that.

What FEAR am I and conservatives trying to push, that our economy is falling apart and that this is being pushed by the left and the media? It’s a fact this is happening and it is still happening today even though we have more evidence that it was completely unnecessary. You can’t put on ABC World News without them pushing FEAR. It’s all doom and gloom.

Listen, you can continue to ignore that the death rate of this virus is no worse than the flu of .1%. The more people are being tested the more prevalent this has become. Look at the numbers. Look at how many people have been infected and how many people have died. There was never a need to shut down the economy and yet the economy is still shut down. I have not heard one convincing argument that the economy and lockdowns still need to be in place. Here is an interesting video.

https://www.facebook.com/15365759804...33905332/?vh=e

What does philosopher Eric Hoffer have to do with me?
Good morning officer.

Excuse my amusement, but this screed is just blind. I’m hoping to answer some in a way that ties back to topic. We started straying based on my reactions to your visions of social unrest breaking out in the islands (as well as elsewhere). I’ll just ask you when was the last time you can cite the peoples of Hawaii rioting and becoming unruly en-masse in protests?

When I pointed out that humanity’s “yearning for freedom” that you talked about is really a reaction to over population resulting in the need for political management and rule of laws - and linked you to the seminal work of anthropologist Robin Dunbar in discovering the physiological link that proves homo sapiens, like all primates, are structured to live only in quite small troops - you went off into Adam and Eve and original sin.

I referenced Trump’s incompetence to manage this crisis - or anything else - and you responded you weren’t willing to drag politics into the conversation - in spite of it being inseparable. And since then you have dived in head first.

As you have been subsequently posting religious and political screeds, the spin has become stunning.

Above now, you toss more political opinions excoriating various life-long leading conservative voices as: RINO’s, ”lost minds”, and “ignoramuses” because they are ‘never Trumpers’ ... ignoring the FACT that they were the among the leading voices of conservatism long before Trump co opted the Republican Party to his own narcissistic purposes ... they led conservative thought when Trump was a democrat supporting HRC ... They led when conservatives were concerned with things like fiscal sanity and budgets. Etc.

You sir, are a faux-conservative, otherwise known as a Trumper. While true conservatives champion small government, you fervently support the charlatan who has literally declared himself “all powerful” in his central government leadership title.

So your clarion cry about the “leftists trying to “ fundamentally transform this nation into something else” and your cry for the constitution - is just frankly hilarious. Sorry.

It’s the Trump fanaticism that is trying to transform this nation - unconstitutionally.

That above, is what you have to do with Eric Hoffer. In 1952 he wrote The True Believer. And that sir, is you.

Now, back more specifically to the topic? You have repeated again and again that I am ignoring the death rate of CV19. And once more: no, I haven’t. I have pointed out neither you nor I - or anyone else - knows what the death rate is. And furthermore it is only meaningful in relation to rate of infectiousness. You can’t understand that? That’s your (above) ideology at work.

Here’s an example of one of the numerous pieces of evidence supporting my point. The nominal death rates of our society spiked in the early months of this virus, without attribution to CV19 as the cause. Lack of testing is the culprit for not knowing if the answer to why lies in CV19. These mortality signals certainly say something dramatic happened.

US total death rate spiked above coronavirus death count in early weeks of pandemic: report
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...onavirus-death
Rate this post positively
 
Old 04-28-2020, 07:11 PM
 
2,378 posts, read 1,119,096 times
Reputation: 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
Good morning officer.

Excuse my amusement, but this screed is just blind. I’m hoping to answer some in a way that ties back to topic. We started straying based on my reactions to your visions of social unrest breaking out in the islands (as well as elsewhere). I’ll just ask you when was the last time you can cite the peoples of Hawaii rioting and becoming unruly en-masse in protests?

When I pointed out that humanity’s “yearning for freedom” that you talked about is really a reaction to over population resulting in the need for political management and rule of laws - and linked you to the seminal work of anthropologist Robin Dunbar in discovering the physiological link that proves homo sapiens, like all primates, are structured to live only in quite small troops - you went off into Adam and Eve and original sin.

I referenced Trump’s incompetence to manage this crisis - or anything else - and you responded you weren’t willing to drag politics into the conversation - in spite of it being inseparable. And since then you have dived in head first.

As you have been subsequently posting religious and political screeds, the spin has become stunning.

Above now, you toss more political opinions excoriating various life-long leading conservative voices as: RINO’s, ”lost minds”, and “ignoramuses” because they are ‘never Trumpers’ ... ignoring the FACT that they were the among the leading voices of conservatism long before Trump co opted the Republican Party to his own narcissistic purposes ... they led conservative thought when Trump was a democrat supporting HRC ... They led when conservatives were concerned with things like fiscal sanity and budgets. Etc.

You sir, are a faux-conservative, otherwise known as a Trumper. While true conservatives champion small government, you fervently support the charlatan who has literally declared himself “all powerful” in his central government leadership title.

So your clarion cry about the “leftists trying to “ fundamentally transform this nation into something else” and your cry for the constitution - is just frankly hilarious. Sorry.

It’s the Trump fanaticism that is trying to transform this nation - unconstitutionally.

That above, is what you have to do with Eric Hoffer. In 1952 he wrote The True Believer. And that sir, is you.

Now, back more specifically to the topic? You have repeated again and again that I am ignoring the death rate of CV19. And once more: no, I haven’t. I have pointed out neither you nor I - or anyone else - knows what the death rate is. And furthermore it is only meaningful in relation to rate of infectiousness. You can’t understand that? That’s your (above) ideology at work.

Here’s an example of one of the numerous pieces of evidence supporting my point. The nominal death rates of our society spiked in the early months of this virus, without attribution to CV19 as the cause. Lack of testing is the culprit for not knowing if the answer to why lies in CV19. These mortality signals certainly say something dramatic happened.

US total death rate spiked above coronavirus death count in early weeks of pandemic: report
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...onavirus-death
Good evening Veteran! Thank you for your service by the way.

Our back and forth did creep into politics and without a doubt you threw in the bait and I took it. After all, politics are fun to talk about. Why not.

They very well might not riot and no one shouldn’t, but What I do know is everyone has a breaking point. It is not like protesting the 1% or woman’s rights or whatever dumb stuff people protest. We are in a new territory of people’s actual livelihoods and lives being threatened. When it comes down to survival, your guess is as good as mine. When it goes beyond just making a statement, I think we can become quite unpredictable.

I don’t recall talking about overpopulation, but I don’t believe we were designed to only live in small groups. First and foremost we were created to be in relationship with God, our creator. I honestly believe mankind has done quite well living in large societies. We have also done quite well living in small groups. It’s really all relative when it is our creator who wants to be in relationship with us and as a matter of fact, Christian missionaries who have encounters tribes have come across tribes who understand the fundamentals of the gospel without ever reading the gospel. It’s quite interesting.

Please point out the spin? I believe I tell it as I see it.

Maybe I’m wrong, but you brought up the many commentators you follow and look up to as if they were conservatives and I challenged you on that. Seriously, Kasich a conservative. Come on!!! All the people you listed are NOT conservatives. Maybe once upon a time, but not now. I do not think you understand the philosophical understanding of American Constitutional conservatism.

You call me a Trumper, you sir are a never Trumper. You extol the Bushes or at least HW Bush as the voice of conservatism, yet President Trump has been the conservative. Explain to me how President Trump has not been a conservative in his policies? How has president Trump attempted to expand the size of government? Has he not left the responsibility to the response of C19 to the states? Has he closed down the states? Has he ordered them to open back up? What in the hell are you talking about? Has he not removed a boatload of regulations? Has he not cut taxes for every single wage earner? You’re just making stuff up.

Yes, the left has been and is attempting to fundamentally transform this nation into something else since the early 20th century. If you don’t think so, it is time to wake up.

The Trump fanaticism? Yeah, he has big rallies. What in your opinion is president Trump trying to turn this nation into? From what I have seen he has appointed Constitutional conservatives to the courts, he has cut endless regulation, he has cut taxes, he’s been working on better trade deals, he’s honored states rights. What in the hell am I missing? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t worship golden calf’s, but when it comes to in regards to my philosophical worldview, Trump has been mostly conservative.

I’m a true believer in what? In our Constitution? The Word of God? What exactly? What kool aid do you believe I’m drinking.

The article is interesting, but speculation. It is not based on hard data and science and most definitely as they admit can’t be connected to C19. Come on man. Even if those deaths can be attributed to C19, it pales in comparison to the projected millions of people who die from C19. You’re reaching.

The data we do have is that the death rate of C19 is .1% and those under the age of 45 it is much less. Shutting down the economy will go down as one of the worst policy decisions ever made. And Trump didn’t do it. Each and every governor did. Just saying.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 04-28-2020, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Kahala
11,970 posts, read 16,390,236 times
Reputation: 5988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyfinestbxtf View Post

The data we do have is that the death rate of C19 is .1% and those under the age of 45 it is much less.
I don't think that is what the data says -

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...101_story.html

Antibody tests support what’s been obvious: Covid-19 is much more lethal than the flu

Results from coronavirus antibody tests have started to trickle in, and they bolster the consensus among disease experts that the virus is significantly more lethal than seasonal flu and has seeded the most disruptive pandemic in the past century.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...es-to-oranges/

The question remains. Can we accurately compare the toll of the flu to the toll of the coronavirus pandemic?

To do this, we have to compare counted deaths to counted deaths, not counted deaths to wildly inflated statistical estimates. If we compare, for instance, the number of people who died in the United States from COVID-19 in the second full week of April to the number of people who died from influenza during the worst week of the past seven flu seasons (as reported to the CDC), we find that the novel coronavirus killed between 9.5 and 44 times more people than seasonal flu. In other words, the coronavirus is not anything like the flu: It is much, much worse.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 04-28-2020, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Juneau, AK + Puna, HI
9,155 posts, read 5,745,799 times
Reputation: 13227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyfinestbxtf View Post
..

That would be great if they could do a test for C19 right when you land.

Wouldn't matter, you'd still have to quarantine given that incubation period of virus is up to 14 days.

covid19 mortality rate is obviously far higher than flu, given what we've seen happen in Europe and NY. I would join you in arguing for less lockdown but come on man, face the facts!

.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 04-28-2020, 08:48 PM
 
2,378 posts, read 1,119,096 times
Reputation: 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by whtviper1 View Post
I don't think that is what the data says -

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...101_story.html

Antibody tests support what’s been obvious: Covid-19 is much more lethal than the flu

Results from coronavirus antibody tests have started to trickle in, and they bolster the consensus among disease experts that the virus is significantly more lethal than seasonal flu and has seeded the most disruptive pandemic in the past century.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...es-to-oranges/

The question remains. Can we accurately compare the toll of the flu to the toll of the coronavirus pandemic?

To do this, we have to compare counted deaths to counted deaths, not counted deaths to wildly inflated statistical estimates. If we compare, for instance, the number of people who died in the United States from COVID-19 in the second full week of April to the number of people who died from influenza during the worst week of the past seven flu seasons (as reported to the CDC), we find that the novel coronavirus killed between 9.5 and 44 times more people than seasonal flu. In other words, the coronavirus is not anything like the flu: It is much, much worse.
So what is the mortality rate of people who have been infected by C19?
Rate this post positively
 
Old 04-28-2020, 08:50 PM
 
2,378 posts, read 1,119,096 times
Reputation: 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arktikos View Post
Wouldn't matter, you'd still have to quarantine given that incubation period of virus is up to 14 days.

covid19 mortality rate is obviously far higher than flu, given what we've seen happen in Europe and NY. I would join you in arguing for less lockdown but come on man, face the facts!

.
Oh yeah, I agree. We need to face the facts. How much higher is the mortality rate of C19 than the flu? I say come on man, follow the science.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 04-28-2020, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Kahala
11,970 posts, read 16,390,236 times
Reputation: 5988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyfinestbxtf View Post
So what is the mortality rate of people who have been infected by C19?
Nobody knows the exact number - but scientists widely believe it is higher than 0.1% - and with no vaccine the numbers get very high very quickly. Even 0.5% in large numbers is a lot. Covid 19 in the United States, in less than 2 months, has killed more people than an average flu season over 6 months - and that was with stay at home order.

With that said - I've resigned myself to getting it (or may have, I came home fairly sick from Vegas in late Feb) - and I'd like to see more things open sooner rather than later. Tourists - no. When Disney opens, Vegas, West Coast - for at least 2-3 weeks, then is the time to discuss.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 04-28-2020, 08:59 PM
 
2,378 posts, read 1,119,096 times
Reputation: 1722
Let’s say the antibody tests come back and say it’s 3 times worse than the flu. Let’s says 500,000 people die in our nation because of this. That’s a very high number. Yet that number pales in comparison to heart related deaths a year. So we completely shut down our nation for that? Okay, fine. How many people are hurt from shutting down our economy? What affect does shutting down our economy have on our health care system. It’s not like it falls out of the sky. What about our supply chain of food and other needs? See, it doesn’t just stop at “hey, stay at home.” The cut is much deeper and no one looks any further. No one sees the forest through the trees. It is catastrophic. Food doesn’t just show up on the shelves on a whim. HELLO!!!!
Rate this post positively
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Hawaii

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2023, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top