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Old 06-09-2016, 08:30 PM
 
1,539 posts, read 1,896,505 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Propulser View Post
Biking, IMHO, is not a serious alternative to any form of motorized transportation for serious commuters or travelers.
"Serious" commuters? I'm assuming when you say serious, you mean commuters that live far distances from their place of employment? If yes, I would agree with you. If not, then please explain to me what a serious commuter is. Someone living in Kapolei working in downtown would be a wee bit nuts if they commuted to work daily by a non-motorized vehicle of any type.

But then there are a lot of "non-serious" commuters that live in Honolulu (i.e. smart people that actually decided to live close to their place of employment) where cycling to work can practically and feasibly eliminate the need to drive anywhere from once to five times a week - or more.

If someone is living in Moiliili/McCully and works on Bishop St, it's a 6-8 minute ride to work AND home during rush hour, guaranteed (regardless of traffic, stalls, accidents, etc). Add in an electric assist drive to the bike and you can commute with zero effort (and zero sweat) in the same time frame. You would never arrive work to late ever again (unless of course your alarm clock didn't do its job). For the day, you don't need to pay for parking (some companies provide incentives for those that only need parking occasionally). Zero wear and tear on the car and additional mileage which depreciates its value. And of course not a sip of gasoline is consumed. You get a nice little work out and the reduced stress (no anxiety due to showing up late) adds benefits to one's overall health and well being.

Riding a bike to work is an ALTERNATIVE to driving. Yes, you can still own a car. And yes, you can still drive the car if you need to go to Costco after work, the weather is awful or you just don't feel like dealing with the extra physical effort for the day. It's an ALTERNATIVE... that can be utilized for 10 days straight, 150 days a year. Or only 3-4 times a month. Whatever the frequency is, it's hugely beneficial to the cyclist and to everyone else driving their car on the road (one less car is, ONE LESS CAR).

I have no idea how or why anyone would be against adding more bike lane infrastructure to a ridiculously automobile-congested place with year-round perfect weather and some of the healthiest, fit people in the nation. Selfishness and ignorance come to mind.

And Viper, there is rain gear one could wear when it does rain. I know, hard to comprehend anyone would wear such a thing. It's common to see cyclists sporting rain gear in wet Seattle, a cold place that gets three times as many rain days as we do yet realizes triple to quadruple the cycling commuter ridership. I mean how do they all get away with such a terribly wet and freezing cold commute wearing their fancy bougie shoes?
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Old 06-09-2016, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Portland OR / Honolulu HI
937 posts, read 1,072,236 times
Reputation: 1848
Honolulu currently is not a very bike friendly. I think it's actually a pretty dangerous city for biking. But, Honolulu has the ability to be a great biking city and I think if safe and interconnected bike lanes are put in place, you would slowly start to see a lot more biking. I hope, as PJ737 says, that more bike safe lanes are coming.

But they also need to have safe places for people to leave their bikes while they are at work, or at the mall, or at dinner, etc. if you come out and your bike is gone, that's no good.

Regarding "serious commuters", that's exactly what Oahu needs fewer of.
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Old 06-09-2016, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Kahala
11,888 posts, read 16,046,798 times
Reputation: 5949
Since traffic was surprisingly bad on H1 this evening even with a holiday tomorrow- I had the displeasure of traversing King Street

My observations- hit South/King about 5:50 pm - counted exactly 5 bikers on the cycle track - and 1 person on this 1-wheeled contraption - none except 1 looked like a downtown commuter - but the poor chap who did - well, it wasn't pretty getting rained on - forgot his "rain gear".

I've never paid close attention to the cycle track but it oddly stops before University- odd in the sense you'd think it would go all the way for students.
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Old 06-10-2016, 07:19 AM
 
788 posts, read 463,348 times
Reputation: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by pj737 View Post
"Serious" commuters? I'm assuming when you say serious, you mean commuters that live far distances from their place of employment? If yes, I would agree with you. If not, then please explain to me what a serious commuter is. Someone living in Kapolei working in downtown would be a wee bit nuts if they commuted to work daily by a non-motorized vehicle of any type.

But then there are a lot of "non-serious" commuters that live in Honolulu (i.e. smart people that actually decided to live close to their place of employment) where cycling to work can practically and feasibly eliminate the need to drive anywhere from once to five times a week - or more.

If someone is living in Moiliili/McCully and works on Bishop St, it's a 6-8 minute ride to work AND home during rush hour, guaranteed (regardless of traffic, stalls, accidents, etc). Add in an electric assist drive to the bike and you can commute with zero effort (and zero sweat) in the same time frame. You would never arrive work to late ever again (unless of course your alarm clock didn't do its job). For the day, you don't need to pay for parking (some companies provide incentives for those that only need parking occasionally). Zero wear and tear on the car and additional mileage which depreciates its value. And of course not a sip of gasoline is consumed. You get a nice little work out and the reduced stress (no anxiety due to showing up late) adds benefits to one's overall health and well being.

Riding a bike to work is an ALTERNATIVE to driving. Yes, you can still own a car. And yes, you can still drive the car if you need to go to Costco after work, the weather is awful or you just don't feel like dealing with the extra physical effort for the day. It's an ALTERNATIVE... that can be utilized for 10 days straight, 150 days a year. Or only 3-4 times a month. Whatever the frequency is, it's hugely beneficial to the cyclist and to everyone else driving their car on the road (one less car is, ONE LESS CAR).

I have no idea how or why anyone would be against adding more bike lane infrastructure to a ridiculously automobile-congested place with year-round perfect weather and some of the healthiest, fit people in the nation. Selfishness and ignorance come to mind.

And Viper, there is rain gear one could wear when it does rain. I know, hard to comprehend anyone would wear such a thing. It's common to see cyclists sporting rain gear in wet Seattle, a cold place that gets three times as many rain days as we do yet realizes triple to quadruple the cycling commuter ridership. I mean how do they all get away with such a terribly wet and freezing cold commute wearing their fancy bougie shoes?
I mean people who have to get to a job, who have to show up fresh and able to perform an important job. Maybe if you are just piddling around, maybe a bike would work, but people with serious jobs, IMHO need to save their energy and their appearance for their job. Pilots, for example, stewardesses, etc. People who must get where they are going because people actually depend on them getting there regardless of weather etc.

One less car, at the expense of a bike is not a fair trade at all. I've rather have 50 cars, all that can keep up with traffic, which aren't a problem, but are all flowing along with each other, than 1 bike who is a problem for every car that has to pass them, who darts in and out of traffic with the potential of serious accidents even at low speeds. Bikes are toys for children (young and old, if you know what I mean).

Adding bike lane infrastructure is usually ridiculous, because needed usable lanes are taken out of service - lanes that carry thousands of people going to and from important jobs, for the sake of the occasional bike that will use the bike lane. Frankly, I have never seen it work out to the best. Traffic ends up worse, because now there are fewer vehicle lanes for real traffic at the expense of essentially wasted pavement.

As far as the words selfish and ignorance go, I'll consider the issuer, and discount them appropriately.
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Old 06-10-2016, 03:11 PM
 
1,539 posts, read 1,896,505 times
Reputation: 1726
Quote:
Originally Posted by pj737 View Post
Selfishness and ignorance come to mind.
Looks like I summed that one up perfectly.

It's sad to think that there are others out there that share your extremely myopic and distorted view of cycling.
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Old 06-10-2016, 10:08 PM
 
788 posts, read 463,348 times
Reputation: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by pj737 View Post
Looks like I summed that one up perfectly.

It's sad to think that there are others out there that share your extremely myopic and distorted view of cycling.
Your autobiography is spot on. My views aren't myopic, they come from years of real-world experience. They just took one of two lanes of traffic on Alamitos N. out of Downtown Long Beach out of service and converted it to a bike lane. I look down that lane every night on the way home prior to turning east on 7th, and never see bikes, but the cars that used to drive down it are now doubled up in the remaining lane - and it will be that way forever. They want to force people to do what is NOT in their best interest, or even conceivable for the overwhelming majority. It never works, and miles and miles of once-busy pavement lie idle, or just get taken over again by he cars who do the real moving in the USA.

But hey, your autobiography is spot on, including the latest chapter on myopia and distortion. Keep those chapters coming!

BTW in my life I've worn out two Raleigh Records and two Nishiki's - one a Mountain Bike, the other a 12-speed, but you didn't bother to ask if I am a cyclist - my favorite path is the South Bay Beach Bike Path from Will Rogers in the North, past Venice Beach, MDR, PDR, LAX, Hermosa etc., until it dead ends at the foot of the PV peninsula in Torrance.

Last edited by Propulser; 06-10-2016 at 11:34 PM..
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Old 06-13-2016, 12:58 AM
 
Location: Monnem Germany/ from San Diego
2,302 posts, read 2,918,375 times
Reputation: 4796
For me living in Hawaii (Kauai) was great when I was working at the windsurfing school, living on a small boat, tent, friends couch..., surfing and mostly being a beach bum... But when I tried to find "Real" work, I had a really hard time to find anything enough that paid enough to live and there just seemed to be no chance. Still love and miss the islands. I think I could have dealt with "Rock Fever" quite well if I had not been so broke. Regular trips off the Island would be a must for me.

Last edited by GER308; 06-13-2016 at 01:12 AM..
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Old 06-13-2016, 01:01 AM
 
Location: Monnem Germany/ from San Diego
2,302 posts, read 2,918,375 times
Reputation: 4796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Propulser View Post
I mean people who have to get to a job, who have to show up fresh and able to perform an important job. Maybe if you are just piddling around, maybe a bike would work, but people with serious jobs, IMHO need to save their energy and their appearance for their job. Pilots, for example, stewardesses, etc. People who must get where they are going because people actually depend on them getting there regardless of weather etc.
Hmmm when I bike commuted (ca. 30km one way) I was fitter and had more energy at work than when I drove. Just grab a shower at work and change- no problem. I normaly would drive once a week and bring clothes for the week. Now I live too close, it's not worth the hassel of dragging my bike out of the cellar for the 800 meters to work.
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Old 06-13-2016, 06:23 PM
 
788 posts, read 463,348 times
Reputation: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by GER308 View Post
Hmmm when I bike commuted (ca. 30km one way) I was fitter and had more energy at work than when I drove. Just grab a shower at work and change- no problem. I normaly would drive once a week and bring clothes for the week. Now I live too close, it's not worth the hassel of dragging my bike out of the cellar for the 800 meters to work.
Well that is a very advantageous situation for you, but I can't help notice that you don't do it anymore. It fits a tiny sliver of the working population. So does skateboarding and scooters, but it isn't what get's the job done around here. That is done by the car - overwhelmingly. Used to be horses etc., but those days are over. For now, its cars.
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Old 06-13-2016, 06:38 PM
 
1,539 posts, read 1,896,505 times
Reputation: 1726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Propulser View Post
I mean people who have to get to a job, who have to show up fresh and able to perform an important job. Maybe if you are just piddling around, maybe a bike would work, but people with serious jobs, IMHO need to save their energy and their appearance for their job. Pilots, for example, stewardesses, etc. People who must get where they are going because people actually depend on them getting there regardless of weather etc.

One less car, at the expense of a bike is not a fair trade at all. I've rather have 50 cars, all that can keep up with traffic, which aren't a problem, but are all flowing along with each other, than 1 bike who is a problem for every car that has to pass them, who darts in and out of traffic with the potential of serious accidents even at low speeds. Bikes are toys for children (young and old, if you know what I mean).

Adding bike lane infrastructure is usually ridiculous, because needed usable lanes are taken out of service - lanes that carry thousands of people going to and from important jobs, for the sake of the occasional bike that will use the bike lane. Frankly, I have never seen it work out to the best. Traffic ends up worse, because now there are fewer vehicle lanes for real traffic at the expense of essentially wasted pavement.

As far as the words selfish and ignorance go, I'll consider the issuer, and discount them appropriately.


First of all, it is extremely presumptuous of you (arrogantly so, actually) to tell people that if they perform any level of physical activity prior to work that somehow they won't be able to perform their job properly unless they have a job where all they do is "piddle around" all day. I need about 1,000 emojis to properly address that statement alone.

If you read my post earlier, one can wear rain gear to keep themselves dry if it rains. And you are likely not aware of this, but it never snows here in urban Honolulu (nor does it ever get cold); riding a bike is ALWAYS an option. And as a plus, when it rains vehicular traffic is almost always much worse. Therefore rainy days can allow people to arrive at work with a similar if not identical commute time as a commute on a clear day. I think people can see the value in a set commute time by bike that is guaranteed under any weather or traffic condition. It is clearly of no value to you, but there are others out there that value their time.

Your vote for 50 cars instead one bike adds another 1,000

And maybe in your neck of the woods, city planners are removing 50% of vehicular lanes to add bikes lanes. Obviously that's just plain dumb. But at least here, no lanes of traffic are being lost. Worst case is parking on one side of the street is lost... but no lanes of through traffic. Not a single bike lane being added to urban Honolulu is removing even 1% of vehicular lanes. For example, McCully St will lose 5 extremely narrow and dangerous parking spaces (all the cars that park in those spaces get their rear view mirrors smashed off by cars) but will gain a bike lane going mauka AND going makai. Beretania Street is gaining a bike lane and gaining a CAR LANE as the dozen or so cars that used to park on the mauka side can no longer park there. It's a win for cyclists AND drivers alike. The angst you have toward bike lane infrastructure seems like it has more to do with the poor planning by your own city officials in your specific locale. No need to push that localized anti-bike lane angst on Honolulu because of incompetence running amok in an entirely different place. It might be in the water you're drinking.

And finally, roads here in urban Honolulu are pushed right up against VERY expensive mostly privately own property. That means there is no public land to expand roads into. How feasible is it to add vehicular lanes so we can accommodate the tens of thousands of more people that will be living in the urban core? You clearly must support eminent domain which would allow the government to force private land owners to tear down their buildings and sell or donate their land to allow for more vehicular lane construction. The ONLY other alternative (which I obviously support) is to convert existing lanes (in this case generally used for parking) into lanes that can accommodate many more cycling commuters than vehicles can in the same footprint. Eventually, society will need to learn to have a smaller commuting footprint rather than force the government to keep building more roads to accommodate more cars. There is simply no more room on our streets (particularly in high density urban areas) to accommodate more cars. So unless you want a future of near total gridlock, bike lanes are an inexpensive and ideal solution to ease traffic congestion by providing an alternative to commuting by car (or bus). Once the roads get to the point where commuting by car will be too slow and cumbersome by vehicle (including buses), people will start using the bike lanes en masse.
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