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Old 06-13-2016, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Kahala
11,893 posts, read 16,063,682 times
Reputation: 5949

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Personally, I don't care how many bike lanes thay add in Honolulu as it doesn't seem to impact the commute - it could benefit the recreational biker - but I also personally doubt biking will ever take off in Honolulu who are white collar professionals commuting to a downtown office for the following reasons:

1) It might not get cold here - but it gets really hot. Whether you have rain gear on or not - it isn't an option for many professionals in those high rise office buildings to show up to work a sweaty mess.

2) There isn't exactly a massive amount of bike racks downtown - the bikes would need to go somewhere and many workplaces (and probably buildings) will frown upon taking bikes into the office.

3) The King Street track isn't exactly leading edge design - it falls short of downtown and falls short of UH. And there have been accidents - even a death - on the cycle track that goes both directions while traffic goes one direction.

4) It isn't highly utilized now - at least in my observation. I'm on King Street frequently and while didn't pay much attention in the past I do now - and I just don't see that many bikes on it - my bet the people on there were probably already bike riders - I just don't think there was some moment with people ditching cars to ride bikes ever happened.

So - build the bike lanes - but I think it will be for the niche rider. The real energy should be on how to get the new Kakaako residents to downtown without using personal cars - dedicated shuttles might be the answer.
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Old 06-14-2016, 12:09 AM
 
788 posts, read 463,764 times
Reputation: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by pj737 View Post
First of all, it is extremely presumptuous of you (arrogantly so, actually) to tell people that if they perform any level of physical activity prior to work that somehow they won't be able to perform their job properly unless they have a job where all they do is "piddle around" all day. I need about 1,000 emojis to properly address that statement alone.

If you read my post earlier, one can wear rain gear to keep themselves dry if it rains. And you are likely not aware of this, but it never snows here in urban Honolulu (nor does it ever get cold); riding a bike is ALWAYS an option. And as a plus, when it rains vehicular traffic is almost always much worse. Therefore rainy days can allow people to arrive at work with a similar if not identical commute time as a commute on a clear day. I think people can see the value in a set commute time by bike that is guaranteed under any weather or traffic condition. It is clearly of no value to you, but there are others out there that value their time.

Your vote for 50 cars instead one bike adds another 1,000

And maybe in your neck of the woods, city planners are removing 50% of vehicular lanes to add bikes lanes. Obviously that's just plain dumb. But at least here, no lanes of traffic are being lost. Worst case is parking on one side of the street is lost... but no lanes of through traffic. Not a single bike lane being added to urban Honolulu is removing even 1% of vehicular lanes. For example, McCully St will lose 5 extremely narrow and dangerous parking spaces (all the cars that park in those spaces get their rear view mirrors smashed off by cars) but will gain a bike lane going mauka AND going makai. Beretania Street is gaining a bike lane and gaining a CAR LANE as the dozen or so cars that used to park on the mauka side can no longer park there. It's a win for cyclists AND drivers alike. The angst you have toward bike lane infrastructure seems like it has more to do with the poor planning by your own city officials in your specific locale. No need to push that localized anti-bike lane angst on Honolulu because of incompetence running amok in an entirely different place. It might be in the water you're drinking.

And finally, roads here in urban Honolulu are pushed right up against VERY expensive mostly privately own property. That means there is no public land to expand roads into. How feasible is it to add vehicular lanes so we can accommodate the tens of thousands of more people that will be living in the urban core? You clearly must support eminent domain which would allow the government to force private land owners to tear down their buildings and sell or donate their land to allow for more vehicular lane construction. The ONLY other alternative (which I obviously support) is to convert existing lanes (in this case generally used for parking) into lanes that can accommodate many more cycling commuters than vehicles can in the same footprint. Eventually, society will need to learn to have a smaller commuting footprint rather than force the government to keep building more roads to accommodate more cars. There is simply no more room on our streets (particularly in high density urban areas) to accommodate more cars. So unless you want a future of near total gridlock, bike lanes are an inexpensive and ideal solution to ease traffic congestion by providing an alternative to commuting by car (or bus). Once the roads get to the point where commuting by car will be too slow and cumbersome by vehicle (including buses), people will start using the bike lanes en masse.
Well you keep your fingers crossed, and keep me updated - say, every decade - on what proportion of commuters (not recreational riders (which I fully support)), but actual commuters, are actually getting to their jobs on a regular basis on bicycles. I suspect that whatever the percentage is now, will be about as high as it gets, i.e. a trifling percentage of all commuters.

I am for adding bike lanes that don't take vehicular lanes out of service.

Don't forget to update us on your "just-around-the-corner" en-masse migration to bicycles instead of Beamers, Audis, Mercedes, Lexi etc. Just don't hold your breath.

Do you really think somebody who goes to work in slacks, shirt and tie is going to ride a bike, or with a suit, or a dress? All that makeup and hair spray washed away with rain and sweat. I don't think so. Maybe the t-shirt and shorts workers.

And how old do you really think our average person can get before riding a bike to work is no longer even conceivable, much less desirable?

The limitations, privatizations and sacrifices are just too great for it to be taken seriously by most people.

Bikes are a great recreational piece of equipment, fun to tour in, but as a serious mode of commuting for most employees....only time will tell, but I seriously doubt it.

Don't forget those updates - every decade or so.
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Old 06-14-2016, 12:19 AM
 
1,539 posts, read 1,898,801 times
Reputation: 1726
Quote:
Originally Posted by whtviper1 View Post
Personally, I don't care how many bike lanes thay add in Honolulu as it doesn't seem to impact the commute - it could benefit the recreational biker - but I also personally doubt biking will ever take off in Honolulu who are white collar professionals commuting to a downtown office for the following reasons:

1) It might not get cold here - but it gets really hot. Whether you have rain gear on or not - it isn't an option for many professionals in those high rise office buildings to show up to work a sweaty mess.

2) There isn't exactly a massive amount of bike racks downtown - the bikes would need to go somewhere and many workplaces (and probably buildings) will frown upon taking bikes into the office.

3) The King Street track isn't exactly leading edge design - it falls short of downtown and falls short of UH. And there have been accidents - even a death - on the cycle track that goes both directions while traffic goes one direction.

4) It isn't highly utilized now - at least in my observation. I'm on King Street frequently and while didn't pay much attention in the past I do now - and I just don't see that many bikes on it - my bet the people on there were probably already bike riders - I just don't think there was some moment with people ditching cars to ride bikes ever happened.

So - build the bike lanes - but I think it will be for the niche rider. The real energy should be on how to get the new Kakaako residents to downtown without using personal cars - dedicated shuttles might be the answer.
1) Hawaii is slow to adopt anything that makes sense. Electric bikes are insanely popular in Europe and Asia. Electric bikes are inexpensive and cheap to operate. This eliminates the heat issue entirely (it is much cooler riding an electric bike than it is walking in the hot sun because the air is passing over you like a fan).

2) Agreed. We are incorporating storage at our new office facility. It will handle up to 24 bikes and will be completely secured and out of the weather. 24 hour video recording will take place in the storage facility; it's ridiculous how cheap it is to provide such security features these days. Very few businesses recognize the need for bike parking/storage but at the same time they don't feel there is a need because nobody wants to ride on the streets as they are currently extremely bike unfriendly. You need to provide safe riding infrastructure first... that puts the pressure on businesses to provide storage and parking options to their employees based on the new demand. It is not costly for businesses to provide secure spaces for people to store their bikes. If people demand them, they will provide them.

3) The cycle track absolutely does NOT fall short of reaching downtown. Once the King St portion ends at South St, it transitions to a bike PATH (which is even safer and more desirable than the cycle track itself) that allows cyclists to ride all the way to the Ewa end of Chinatown without needing to interact with a single car (other than buses on Hotel St). It's actually an exceptionally pleasant ride that traverses the City Hall and State Capitol grounds. You should try it one day instead of spreading misinformation about it.

4) Studies have proven that the cycling ridership has increased over 220% since it was built. That means more than twice as many people cycle on King St now than they did before the track was built. That's a huge success from any standpoint regardless of one's anti or pro cycling position. Even better, the ridership on SIDEWALKS has plummeted by over 88%. That means a safer environment for pedestrians. Nobody can ignore the benefits of that. The cycle track has essentially made people "hyper aware" when making turns on King St. This is a huge plus from a safety standpoint. Do people like the "extra work" required by paying more attention to their surroundings? No, of course not. But people are extremely selfish and won't want to provide that extra effort unless it's forced. The cycle track forces people to make the extra effort to be more aware of their surroundings. Despite all the bickering and crying from a majority of the public, this is actually a good thing; it's sad people don't understand that. And ridership will continue to increase much more once all the connecting routes are established. It's not a whole lot safer for cyclists if only ONE major thoroughfare is made safer for cyclists. Many more routes need to be established in order to increase ridership to meet new milestones.
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Old 06-14-2016, 12:41 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the Kona coffee fields
834 posts, read 1,122,057 times
Reputation: 1644
Guys, as much as I love biking, start a different thread.
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Old 06-14-2016, 12:48 AM
 
Location: not sure, but there's a hell of a lot of water around here!
2,683 posts, read 7,213,844 times
Reputation: 3879
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraBenNemsi View Post
Guys, as much as I love biking, start a different thread.

Considering what they've done to a thread that started out with something about 'Rock Fever', ( I think it was rock fever, who knows, it's been a while ), I wouldn't want to be riding a bike in Honolulu, either in or out of the bike lane, with either Vipe or PJ motoring in the vicinity.


Uuuurrrrrpppp, scuze me, I MEANT to signal
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Old 06-14-2016, 12:54 AM
 
1,539 posts, read 1,898,801 times
Reputation: 1726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Propulser View Post
Well you keep your fingers crossed, and keep me updated - say, every decade - on what proportion of commuters (not recreational riders (which I fully support)), but actual commuters, are actually getting to their jobs on a regular basis on bicycles. I suspect that whatever the percentage is now, will be about as high as it gets, i.e. a trifling percentage of all commuters.

I am for adding bike lanes that don't take vehicular lanes out of service.

Don't forget to update us on your "just-around-the-corner" en-masse migration to bicycles instead of Beamers, Audis, Mercedes, Lexi etc. Just don't hold your breath.

Do you really think somebody who goes to work in slacks, shirt and tie is going to ride a bike, or with a suit, or a dress? All that makeup and hair spray washed away with rain and sweat. I don't think so. Maybe the t-shirt and shorts workers.

And how old do you really think our average person can get before riding a bike to work is no longer even conceivable, much less desirable?

The limitations, privatizations and sacrifices are just too great for it to be taken seriously by most people.

Bikes are a great recreational piece of equipment, fun to tour in, but as a serious mode of commuting for most employees....only time will tell, but I seriously doubt it.

Don't forget those updates - every decade or so.
As traffic gets worse (e.g. doubling current commute times), people will have the alternative to ride a bike after the bike lane infrastructure is built. Currently, it's not bad enough that people will want to ditch their metal boxes for bikes, but over time the roads will get more clogged with cars... particularly after the next 50 high rise condos are built (which will happen in the next 10 years). It's just a matter of time.

Less than 1% of the working class in Honolulu wears slacks and a tie. Or a suit. And that working class includes all the professionals in downtown. Yes, shocking, I know. Maybe you've never even been here. Because if you were, you would know that.

I'm guessing by the time you need a hip replacement, cycling would not be a good option. Until then, you're fair game.

Don't forget to check back in a decade.
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Old 06-14-2016, 12:59 AM
 
1,539 posts, read 1,898,801 times
Reputation: 1726
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraBenNemsi View Post
Guys, as much as I love biking, start a different thread.
Ummm, did you not know the whole point of CDF is to see who can close a thread as quickly as possible by going off topic. Good grief who are you???
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Old 06-14-2016, 06:48 AM
 
788 posts, read 463,764 times
Reputation: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by pj737 View Post
As traffic gets worse (e.g. doubling current commute times), people will have the alternative to ride a bike after the bike lane infrastructure is built. Currently, it's not bad enough that people will want to ditch their metal boxes for bikes, but over time the roads will get more clogged with cars... particularly after the next 50 high rise condos are built (which will happen in the next 10 years). It's just a matter of time.

Less than 1% of the working class in Honolulu wears slacks and a tie. Or a suit. And that working class includes all the professionals in downtown. Yes, shocking, I know. Maybe you've never even been here. Because if you were, you would know that.

I'm guessing by the time you need a hip replacement, cycling would not be a good option. Until then, you're fair game.

Don't forget to check back in a decade.
Roger, we'll check back in 2026. I'll be 73 then! You keep guessing. Perhaps some day, you'll develop some skill at it!
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Old 06-14-2016, 02:07 PM
 
788 posts, read 463,764 times
Reputation: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by pj737 View Post
As traffic gets worse (e.g. doubling current commute times), people will have the alternative to ride a bike after the bike lane infrastructure is built. Currently, it's not bad enough that people will want to ditch their metal boxes for bikes, but over time the roads will get more clogged with cars... particularly after the next 50 high rise condos are built (which will happen in the next 10 years). It's just a matter of time.

Less than 1% of the working class in Honolulu wears slacks and a tie. Or a suit. And that working class includes all the professionals in downtown. Yes, shocking, I know. Maybe you've never even been here. Because if you were, you would know that.

I'm guessing by the time you need a hip replacement, cycling would not be a good option. Until then, you're fair game.

Don't forget to check back in a decade.
Not to beat a dead horse, or cyclist, I would also add, that IMHO, people in the USA have gotten past being motive power. They have gotten used to the A/C, privacy, comfort, safety, protections from the elements, and ability to travel without the expenditure of great quantities of muscle power, that motor vehicles provide.

Very few will want to, or even be willing to, go back in time.

What people will do for recreation (sweat and exercise, for example) they don't want to do just to get to work. People want to do their sweating in the Sauna, in the exercise room, or, yes, riding recreationally, but on their way to work - not so much.

Whatever the exec's are wearing, be it Suits, Spooners or Cooke St.s, they don't want to show up drenched and disheveled.

As far as rock fever goes, I never got it in the 4 years I was there, but then I didn't have much to go back to on the mainland. Like the Sheriff said "It's only an Island if you look at it from the water".
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