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Old 10-30-2008, 12:37 AM
 
60 posts, read 385,080 times
Reputation: 49

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[SIZE=2]I come from the mainland in a city that has utilized rail for over 20 years. I know what rail can do.. And I know what it cant. I am not sure rail is right for Hawaii. However it does seem like the most viable solution to this traffic issue. Short of building an H4 on top of H1. Or making another tunnel.. Somewhere.. There is no real feasible solution. Elevated bus roads is RETARTED. Haha. Any one who is in support of that needs to do a little home work.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]I am interested in the general consensus of rail. I am in the construction industry. So I am pro for one would give my brethren work for 5 more years and dump money into the economy. And for two I believe it would over a eco and economically efficient way for me and many others to make the journey from the west side to the rest of the populated island.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Please respond to this… I am interested in the ideas out there. Just keep it calm.. I know this can be a charged topic for some. I would like to keep this thread live and give people a chance to say there piece.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Mahalo and be Blessed[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
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Old 10-30-2008, 12:53 AM
 
Location: Moku Nui, Hawaii
11,023 posts, read 22,309,267 times
Reputation: 10777
Actually, instead of rail what the islands need is a revamped land planning that allows communities to be built that have jobs, shopping and housing all integrated within walking distance. At the moment commercial zoning is kept separate from residential so folks HAVE to commute to work. If small shops and factories were allowed within walking distances of housing areas (think how the sugar plantations were set up) then folks would be able to live, work, shop and play all within walking distance.
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Old 10-30-2008, 11:24 AM
 
820 posts, read 2,917,913 times
Reputation: 646
I agree with hotcatz that future planning of combination live/work communities is the long term answer. That type of "I can walk to work or the bank or the corner store" is what keeps residential areas from all emptying out onto the freeways in the morning and helps smaller businesses to thrive. Many San Francisco neighborhoods, for example, have small, family owned grocery stores and restaurants that neighbors can easily walk to.

But then again, Oahu already has a large commercial district, and it's just not feasible to re-do the current commercial/residential layout. That means there is already a problem to address, of people in outlying residential-only areas who need to commute into and around within the commercial district. One thing that could happen is to allow some small commercial development within the residential communities. Get some small stores in there now, to help keep people from having to drive to get their groceries and quick errands. People will still drive to Costco, but if I just needed a few things, for sure I'd walk to the neighborhood store, and the neighborhood seniors would definitely benefit.

I was living in the SF Bay Area before, during, and after the building of their rapid transit, BART. I think the availability of rapid transit has made it possible for people to live & work in different areas, and it does keep thousands of cars off the already overcrowded roads. It did provide jobs in building it, and jobs in running it.

That's all the things that came true. What didn't come true was cost what they said it would. Large projects such as this always run over the initially stated cost projections. There was a tax added to the counties that have BART, and residents were told the tax would go away once the system was finished. Of course it never has, so counties with BART pay a higher sales tax than counties that don't. The system runs well, but of course it requires maintenance and major upgrades, so there is an ongoing operational expense, and that has to come from taxes.

And it took longer to build than they said it would. There was a lot of disruption to the traffic, to the businesses in the construction zone or around it. There was always trucks and streets dug up and noise and extra dirt. But anyone who has built anything, from landscaping to house remodel to a new commecial building knows that this is a part of the process.

Our street is getting the sewage lines cleared & pumped in preparation for any heavy rains, since last year the main road was flooded after a December storm and mudslide. Sure, it's a pain now with driving around the construction or having to make a turn, but then I'd rather have that inconvenience for a little while and have the sewers run well for a long time.

So - for or against? I would say I'm for it, as long as it's not the only solution to keeping Oahu from turning more into Los Angeles. If the rail is not partnered up with long term planning of residential-commercial "villages", then it won't be as effective.
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Old 10-30-2008, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,477 posts, read 56,952,951 times
Reputation: 24825
Maybe Hawaii or at least the Honolulu area should consider a very light passenger rail system based on the narrow gauge technology that was once used in the sugar cane fields. Narrow gauge rail could carry nearly as many people with much less cost (approx 60%), land disruption and noise. There would also be a valuable “cuteness” factor.
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Moku Nui, Hawaii
11,023 posts, read 22,309,267 times
Reputation: 10777
There are still the railway beds in some areas of the state, too. Between Hilo and Puna and along the Hamakua coast on Moku Nui (the Big Island) the trainbeds are still there.

We saw some light rail in Portland when we went there on vacation several years ago where there were trains along the highway. They took up about the space of one lane of traffic and didn't seem to have a large visual "presence" on the landscape. Elevated rail would be very visible, but this isn't a choice I should have much opinion on since it isn't considered for my island.

With most social and economic things, one answer will not usually solve the problems. There is usually a requirement for a whole bunch of little things to all add up into a greater whole before things work out.
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Old 11-01-2008, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Kailua, Oahu, HI and San Diego, CA
1,178 posts, read 5,762,654 times
Reputation: 801
Default The latest on the rail controversy in Honolulu

There is an item on the ballot next Tuesday as to whether to continue the project, which has the backing of the Mayor and the City Council, or stop it. Here's the latest:

Part of Honolulu rail transit study released | HonoluluAdvertiser.com | The Honolulu Advertiser

There are ardent supporters:

Honolulu On The Move: Honolulu High-Capacity Transit Corridor Project

and just as ardent detractors:

No title

Hank
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Old 11-01-2008, 02:22 PM
 
Location: fern forest, glenwood, hawai'i
850 posts, read 4,236,112 times
Reputation: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Maybe Hawaii or at least the Honolulu area should consider a very light passenger rail system based on the narrow gauge technology that was once used in the sugar cane fields. Narrow gauge rail could carry nearly as many people with much less cost (approx 60%), land disruption and noise. There would also be a valuable “cuteness” factor.

agreed. and, not so many people and businesses would be displaced.
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Old 11-01-2008, 03:03 PM
 
346 posts, read 926,752 times
Reputation: 185
It's going to be a huge mess one way or the other. Even a light rail would require the city to essentially bulldoze a 20 mile rail through Salt Lake. They can't put the rail at street level because that would destroy traffic. So they're going to put it 100 feet up in the air and it will cost "3.9 Billion Dollars."

Who's willing to bet that it will cost a ton more than that?
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Old 11-01-2008, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Big Island of Hawaii
1,375 posts, read 6,099,372 times
Reputation: 629
I've been on the Big Island for a while now, so I'm not following this issue as closely as I would be if I were still on Oahu, but I think I would support rail if I was there.

I would hope that those with the power to do so would use good common sense and sensitivity in the decisions to be made, but I do think that Oahu would benefit from the system once it is in place.
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Old 11-01-2008, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Big Island of Hawaii
1,375 posts, read 6,099,372 times
Reputation: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaackko View Post

So they're going to put it 100 feet up in the air
"The height of the city's proposed transit system will range from 30 to 50 feet above ground level along most of the 20-mile track from East Kapolei to Ala Moana, but in some spots it will climb much higher.....

The highest point of the rail measured from the ground is where it crosses about 90 feet above Waiawa Stream, Brennan said."



Article Source:
Rail will give Honolulu new look | The Honolulu Advertiser | Hawaii's Newspaper
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