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Old 05-19-2009, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Hawaii/Alabama
1,919 posts, read 3,455,061 times
Reputation: 5248

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Absolutely it is 'my opinion'. An it is not 'rationalising cultural conditioning' when it is a fact. YOU never noticed racism towards YOU on the mainland because you are White! You were sent to a place where Whites are not at the top of the food chain and noticed the difference.

You stated that the word Haole was on par with the '' word. That is simply not true! No matter how many times you say it will not change its meaning. We DO call people by their race and it is simply the word for "White"- just because you do not like it does not mean it is negative.

My own husband is called "Haole" by the extended members of the family, just as my cousin's wife is the Pake and my other cousin married a tita. Just because you are not familiar with the custom does not make it racist or even negative- this also stems back to plantation days and unless you make yourself familiar with the culture it will remain foreign to you.

As for Waiane beach- even I do not go there and I am 'local'.There are many lovely people who live there but there is a section of the population that one should avoid. Hint hint- if even the locals do not go there it might be a place to avoid!

Yes you posted your experience but when you make such generalized statements expect that it will be picked apart. You only stated your dislikes which makes for an ignorant expression.
"The thing I really found discerning was that true Hawaiians comprise a very small percentage of the population, with the majority of these living on the "Big Island".
Oh yes, what is it that you find "discerning" about Hawaiians? That statement made absolutely no sense at all! Are you even aware of the meaning of the word discerning? What exactly are "true Hawaiians"? At least ATTEMPT to make sense when making an incorrect statement.

Oh yeah, "beat the haole day" has been around since the fifties. The 'beating' is the equivalent of what happens when you fail to wear green on St. Patrick's Day-most haole kids use it as an excuse to get out of the last day of school. Did your kids actually get beaten? If so please give us the details (complete with Police report number) because surely if your child were beaten you pressed charges, right?
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Old 05-19-2009, 03:47 PM
 
Location: OrangeMiddleBurgPark, Florida
33 posts, read 91,284 times
Reputation: 85
I'm sorry you're having problems with some terms I've used or the particular variation of an adjective, but those are irrelevant to my point.

You have your perspectives and I have mine. You've stated your views and I've stated mine. Mine won't alter yours and yours won't alter mine.

E kala mai `oe ia`u.
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Hawaii/Alabama
1,919 posts, read 3,455,061 times
Reputation: 5248
Absolutely, but please learn the meaning of words before using them- 'discerning' truly makes no sense in your sentence (in ANY form as it means exhibiting good judgment or perception); perhaps you actually meant 'disconcerting' (disturbing, perplexing or baffling) in some form, or possibly you had some other word in mind that would make sense of your statement.

In any case the statement STILL makes no sense since your statement dealing with "true Hawaiians" is that you fail to understand what "true Hawaiians" are as a people. What percentage of blood must we be to claim our Hawaiian heritage? Even if you go by percentages the largest population does not live on the Big Island- but then again you probably have never made the effort to actually study those that you disparage so casually.

I do hope that you are happier where you are and that you are enjoying your Retirement as we are certainly enjoying ours...
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Arkansas
148 posts, read 321,671 times
Reputation: 56
melaniej65, nodding in agreement over here. We have many friends (former southerners like DH) who decided to make Hawaii their permanent home. Experiencing life as a minority in a majority minority community can really shake your ideas about what's possible for yourself and your children. My oldest (4) thrived in preschool there with children of all colors. Having moved back to the southern U.S. for recruiting duty, we've noticed a significant change in terms of the way other children (and their parents) respond to her overtures of friendship. Just last week she asked me if we could move our family (plus grandma and aunties and cousins) back to Hawaii to live.
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Old 05-19-2009, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Hawaii/Alabama
1,919 posts, read 3,455,061 times
Reputation: 5248
Sneezyone-
Your children will carry the Aloha spirit with them forever. Hawaii is poorer for having lost you and your family.

I hope that you are all well, Recruiting duty is so very hard on the SM as well as the family but it is so important.Take care-
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Arkansas
148 posts, read 321,671 times
Reputation: 56
Thanks, Melanie, and I sure hope you're right about that memory staying with her.

At Thanksgiving time, she came home singing a lil' tune; screwing up her face to sing off-key but with much feeling...

"We are thankful for sunshine, for wind and for rain.
We are thankful for taro and tall sugar cane.
We are thankful for rice, for fish and for poi,
For all of God's gifts and Thanksgiving joy!"

I laughed and laughed and laughed until tears rolled. Where else is that tune even possible but Hawaii? ...and in a base preschool? ...and the fact that it really did represent the things that she loved and was thankful for? Priceless. Sorry, just needed an excuse to remember.
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Old 05-20-2009, 01:50 AM
 
Location: South Bay, CA
113 posts, read 517,678 times
Reputation: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyRet View Post
Of course we met some nice people in Hawaii, but I was responding specifically to the prejudice issue this thread was exploring. A previous poster had stated he has lived there for 5 years and never encountered any occurrences of prejudice. I offered up another perspective as did other posters.

The park I referred to did not have any anti-foreigner sentiments for that day....THERE WAS NOBODY THERE. We had just returned from a 6 month deployment and were standing down. It was a week day so we headed to Waianae to enjoy the beach. And the sign declaring "Locals Only" was not some temporary poster board someone had taped to a tree. It was a permanent fixture on a pole, rooted in the ground. This was a National Park, hence our surprise.

Are you unaware of "Kill Hoale Day"? Was this a tradition to promote international camaraderie or what??

I never said other regions don't have their problems as well. I'm retired Navy too. Don't you think I don't remember the signs in Norfolk, "sailors and dogs, stay off the grass?"

But we weren't talking about Virginia, were we? We were talking about a specific train of thought in a specific region and that was what I had shared my views about.

I'm sorry you don't like what I had to say, but I spoke the truth. I lived it and experienced it. My wife and I were newlyweds. We weren't mean to anyone, or arrogant or trite. We were quite simply, told we were not welcome.

Just because you have declared it doesn't exist, or try to rationalize it's existence as a "cultural conditioning" from the Mainland, does not make it so. You have your words, your beliefs and your experiences....I have mine.

Ai yah, where to start....

1) Just an FYI, there is no 'national park' on Oahu. Checking the National Park Service, the only attraction on the island is the Arizona Memorial. You most likely encountered a groundskeeper or janitor at a city park, that doesn't excuse his behavior obviously, but consider the source with a little more scrutiny.

2) I don't buy the Hawaii is all roses and fluffy clouds since I'm from there and lived most of my life there, however, you and your family went to a beach in Waianae in the 80s. Unfortunately as you learned, that is not a good idea, you WILL encounter racism if you go to one of the poorest and least educated areas of the state. Most locals will not go there for the same reasons, I've been called 'stuck up J.a.p.' enough times to learn my lesson... (just a disclaimer to anyone who's reading too one dimensionally, there are also awesome people out on the leeward coast!)

3) Yes, haole can definitely be used in the derogatory sense. But no, it's not even close to being on the same level as the N word. Haole can be used with zero negatively and most of the time is used in a descriptive fashion. Same as Podagee, Pake, Tita, Moke, Hawaiian, Sunga, Flip, J.A.P, Yobo whatever...

4) Kill Haole Day? Never, ever happened anywhere that I knew of....is this that North Shore movie we're talking about?? Oh god, especially in Pearl City of all places...are all the little Japanese kids gonna chase the haoles around with their flutes and colorguard flags?? haha, oops sorry, being stereotypical...

5) If your experiences really were that bad, I feel for you, I hope the positive ones more than made up

Last edited by 7th generation; 05-20-2009 at 05:18 PM.. Reason: please watch your language
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Old 05-20-2009, 02:19 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,984,975 times
Reputation: 1771
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCB0B View Post
Like I said before, I've experienced zero problems. But then I don't think I'm God's gift to the islands. I believe living here is God's gift to me. A little humility goes a long way around here. Maybe that's why our experiences differ. Looking over your posts I suspect your ego caused most of your troubles and also prevents you from recognizing that fact.
Nah, I've lived all over the world. I happen to live in a place right now where less than 1% of the people look like me. I get along good wherever I'm at.

Racism is a little worse in Hawaii than in some places in the world, but it's not so bad that a person won't enjoy their time there. It's probably not something most people would notice on a day-to-day level.

In fact, I'll probably move back to Hawaii someday. Most of the people are still pretty good people, even with the occasional racist mixed in, (just like anyway else). I don't know what that has to do with my ego, but I personally didn't have much problems in Hawaii. I enjoyed my time there.

But I also won't lie to people and act like I never encountered any racisim for the 2 years I lived in Hawaii. Nor would I lie to them and tell them that kids transfered in from the mainland are guarenteed to have an easy time.

Because real people use this board, and they don't want the politically correct, "be proud of where you live" answer. So we should be honest and not pretend that Hawaii is the one place in the world that has completely overcame racisim.
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Old 05-20-2009, 06:25 AM
 
Location: Hawaii/Alabama
1,919 posts, read 3,455,061 times
Reputation: 5248
Because real people use this board, and they don't want the politically correct, "be proud of where you live" answer. So we should be honest and not pretend that Hawaii is the one place in the world that has completely overcame racisim.

No one has said anything like this...what we are saying is that there are people who may be racist just as there are those who do not care what race a person is (most of us are so mixed that this is practically a moot point).

What I DO object to is when people make such sweeping statements that are patently false and ridiculous. People who says that local people are lazy and uneducated, they NEVER received good service at ANY restaurant, haole is used like the "n" word, neighborhoods filled fill druggies, etc.

Hawaii does have a different outlook than other States and that history has colored our view of foreigners,as well as the traditions that were formed by the plantation society but unless provoked people ususally behave pleasantly; it would certainly help if those who come to our Islands (especially to live) would take just a little bit of time to study and see just WHY many behave the way they do.

I could take my experiences on the Mainland and make the statement that everyone on the mainland is racist and uneducated- but I do not because as with everywhere there are those who typify this statement while there are also there who are warm and friendly (and actually seek higher education). The Army has sent us to towns that are not known for their grace and interest in education- heck in one place there were STILL dirt floors and bathrooms that could only loosely fit the term 'indoor plumbing' yet I do not think that the entire Mainland, State or even the entire town is modeled on that particular place.

I just think that there should be some form of even treatment given when people come on here and completely trash a place because I refuse to believe that they have been in every part of the State, met every 'local' person and been inside every establishment...
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Old 05-20-2009, 07:00 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,984,975 times
Reputation: 1771
Quote:
Originally Posted by melaniej65 View Post
Because real people use this board, and they don't want the politically correct, "be proud of where you live" answer. So we should be honest and not pretend that Hawaii is the one place in the world that has completely overcame racisim.

No one has said anything like this...what we are saying is that there are people who may be racist just as there are those who do not care what race a person is (most of us are so mixed that this is practically a moot point).
Unfortunately, the only reason I brought that point up was in response to a person who was saying something a lot like that. Let me recap:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCB0B View Post
I've only been here 5 years but not once have I encountered racism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
Really? I saw it there, about like I've seen it everywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCB0B View Post
Like I said before, I've experienced zero problems. But then I don't think I'm God's gift to the islands.
So in my reply I pointed out that Hawaii hasn't magically gotten rid of racism. I don't see how a person could live here for 5 years and never encounter ANY of it.

That being said, I agree with you that it's not like Hawaii is a redneck southern town. There's lots of places in the U.S. that one would face the same disadvantages if they were black or Hispanic.

I think the economic strain that's a result of too many people moving in, and vacationers driving up land prices (while keeping wages low) contributes to the problem. (Although that's sort of obvious, I guess.) Of course, a lot of people feeling that strain just moved to Hawaii one generation ago, so they're probably part of the problem.

Just like I will be, if I move back
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