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Just spent the weekend it Pittsburgh... great city! Awesome sports teams, vibrant downtown, close to white water rafting, kayaking, hiking, skiing, mountain bike trails, and excellent golf courses. Really nice hard working people that are humble and straightforward. The ethnic neighborhoods are great too, I know nobody likes to call white people diverse but in this city they are. Polish, Ukrainian, Serbian, Lithuanian, Italian, Jewish, and Irish all have strong influences in the region and maintain their identity. I was so stuffed full of kielbasa and pierogies when I was there that I could barely walk.
As far as the weather goes... true it isn't the best. But it is absolutely beautiful in the fall when the leaves turn, the summers are mild, and the snow in the winter allows you to enjoy the terrain with sledding, skiing, snowboarding etc... Some people like seasons rather than the groundhog day climate of Hawaii (Sun goes up, sun goes down, same thing every day).
No to Miami, I grew up in Fl, lived in Miami sobe. Love central coast of Florida, Sebastian, Vero. Palm Beaches
No to Vegas, unless you just want to party all the time
What about Southern Ca.? Hearing a LOT of buzz about Georgia, worth checking into.
No to Pittsburgh (ugh, weather).
No to Florida (ugh, weather).
So, that leaves Vegas. At least it's neither freezing nor unbearably humid.
I figure, go where the weather's the best, most other things you can change, but not the weather. Even where the jobs are scarce you might find one, where the schools are bad you can go private (if you can afford it) or home-school, where there's crime you can make efforts to stay safe, where people are nasty you can find SOME nice folks, etc.
But I haven't found a way to change the weather yet. That's why I'm here!
I respect your theory on weather being the be all and end all of reasons to live some place based on the theory you can "change everything else yourself", but I disagree. Consider the following...
I live in Pittsburgh, as does my best friend. He makes about 65K a year, and his wife makes about 35K a year.
On 100K a year, they live in a gorgeous 2-story log home with an enormous glass trow and deck on 2 acres of property on top of a huge hill overlooking row after row of lush wooded hills. They have a farm pond next to their property that the owner allows their two kids to fish in. They have 2 vehicles, money to set aside for their kids' college futures, live in a low crime rural area called Hickory, Pa...and yet, they are only about a half hour from downtown Pittsburgh where they have 3 professional sports teams, about 5 world class museums, low unemployment, watersports, and they're only about 90 minutes from great resorts offering skiing and all sorts of wintersports. Their kids go to a solid public school with plenty of other highly ranked public schools nearby should they ever move to a different area locally. They live within a 7 or 8 hour drive of about 15 cities large enough to support pro sports teams as well as the ocean. All these features, they indulge in easily, on only 100K as a couple a year. They live in an area with some of the most spectacular fall color in the country, the type of Christmas' that often look like postcards, and comfortable summers in the low 80's. Let's compare that with "perfect weather cities" like San Diego, Honolulu, Key West, etc.
Ok...so you live somewhere that is sunny and comfortable everyday. Only problem is, that 100K will buy you a shoebox there to live in...with little to no yard...oftentimes devoid of much history archetecturally or culturally due to the relatively young life of such cities. In addition, you better not pine for a beautiful fall drive, or a white Christmas, or watching the landscape become alive in the spring, because all these things someone from Pittsburgh takes for granted, someone from the cities I lived in can't associate with...the crisp fall air on a Friday night football game, the excitement of children on a snow day from school as they go sledding down neighborhood hills, being able to throw a lively outdoor party on your property without the neighbors calling the cops, because the neighbors are 3 acres away. Having sports teams that are so beloved that literally 90 percent of the population are of one spirit on Sunday afternoons.
You really think you can "change" all that? No...and 2nd of all, let's say you don't care about the treasure of the 4 seasons. You STILL now have the burden of working your butt off slaving to climb a hellish corporate latter of long hours and increasingly stressful responsibilities just to have the same acre of land or 2 story house or financial "play money" to enjoy their surroundings that a Pittsburgher can do with a middle of the road salary.
What good is paradise if you find yourself having to choose between living in a 1 room apartment eating generic Wal-Mart food, or slaving 65 hours a week and spending 6 or 7 years in school in order have some basic amenities and life indulgences?
The equation of life involves A LOT more than good weather. If it's midwinter in Pittsburgh and you want a warm weather fix, spend 250 bucks and hop a 2 hour flight down to Fort Lauderdale for a long weekend. Do it twice, once after the New Year and once around early March, and you've busted your winter up nicely.
But the idea that you'd sacrifice so many of life's pleasures because putting on a few layers of clothing for 4 or 5 months a year is THAT big of a deal to you, seems absurd to me.
I get your point and it is a valid one. (Though personally I couldn't give a whit about "sports teams", but I do miss skiing. Still, not enough to make it worth living in upstate NY, but that is a personal balancing act.)
But by focusing on aspects of climate - four seasons, white Christmases, crisp fall days, and winter sports - I think you are proving my point. If THOSE things are what make you happy, then you should go where THEY are (temperate climes), because you just CAN'T have them here in Hawaii. Just like I can't have the climate that I love in upstate NY or Pittsburgh.
And you have also overblown some of the other 'pros' of Pittsburgh and 'cons' of Hawaii - those not related to climate - quite a bit. I lived in a place where the cost of living was low, there were 4 seasons, winter sports, medium-sized cities nearby, and gorgeous natural beauty (the Finger Lakes region of NY). I made about $100K, too. We had a house on two acres, with a garage, outbuilding, attic and basement.
My life there wasn't as idyllic as you make it out. Perhaps because we lived in a drafty old house that cost a fortune to heat, sent our child to private school, spent probably too much on 4-wheel-drive vehicles, etc., we were not at all living 'high on the hog'.
And here, in contrast, if I made $100K (which I don't yet), I'd be doing just fine, paying my share of the mortgage, sending my son to private school, eating quite well (we love to cook). I live in a decent-sized house (my part of it) with two large bedrooms, three baths (too many, it's a weird house and we'll probably tear one out), a large kitchen, nice LR and huge screened lanai, on 1/2 acre. We have trees and a garden, and my husband has a 480 sq. ft. custom-built shop out back. We bought (with financing) this property, sharing with other extended family members who live in other parts of the 3,000 sq.ft. house. There is plenty of room for all of us. That is one thing I "changed" myself - because I was willing to share with family, including my elderly mom who needed us in close proximity anyway, I was able to achieve partial ownership of a beautiful property in one of the more desirable neighborhoods of Kauai.
And I'm not struggling to climb some sort of "corporate ladder" - I chose to start my own business here, which has its own struggles, but is also more rewarding and fun, for me, than working for someone else could ever be.
I changed many of the "assumptions" of living in Hawaii by making what, for me, were the right choices. But just like you CAN'T have the four seasons here, I CAN'T have 'never worrying about the temperature being above 90 or below 70' in most places. Those are the things neither of us can change, so we go where they are and do our best with the rest.
But the idea that you'd sacrifice so many of life's pleasures because putting on a few layers of clothing for 4 or 5 months a year is THAT big of a deal to you, seems absurd to me.
Honestly, I find no pleasure in winter. None. Zilch. It's more for me than "a few layers of clothing." I don't know what it is about how my body works, but when I lived in New England, I was NEVER WARM in winter. If I had to go outside, I needed to take a hot shower to get the cold off of me. In my well-insulated house, with the thermostat set to 72 and layers of clothes on, my fingers, toes, and nose were still uncomfortably cold.
I say: who needs a huge house on 2 acres of land, when there's a big beach a couple miles away and I can go there every day? Who needs to rake leaves or shovel snow, when I could go hiking to a waterfall with my dog instead? I don't need a big fancy house, because I don't spend that much time inside, really. If you need to cocoon for 6 months a year, that might be important. Here, outdoor living all the way!
And you really, really overplay the expense of Hawaii. Here, I live in a condo, not the house I used to have. And, yes, it cost more than my house, but I was still able to afford it. The condo has the same square footage as my old house. Plus I have a pool and tennis courts (overlooking the ocean!) instead of a backyard. Fair trade in my book. I wish my dog had a yard to run around in, but I don't wish it bad enough to leave this place. She'll have to make do with the nearby park and weekends at the beach.
If you value drives through the fall foliage and twice per year trips to the beach, that's awesome. But I value weekly (and then some) trips to the beach and once per year visits to the snow, if that. My values are not the same as yours. Why is that not OK with you?
(And, I have to say, based on wintertime Facebook status updates, none of my friends who "love four seasons so so much" really mean it. All they ever do is complain about the weather! No one here complains about the weather, like, ever.)
I think the interesting thing about this thread is that Las Vegas has been referred to as 'Hawaii's 9th Island' due to so many Hawaiians who have moved there.
But this thread, doesn't really seem to reflect that.
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