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Old 11-17-2019, 02:08 PM
 
356 posts, read 238,787 times
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Medicare/Medicaid spending is really high in the US.

Does that mean more and more are sick ? There are more and more baby boomers in the USA?
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Old 11-17-2019, 03:01 PM
 
Location: In the land beyond Ohare!
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No, it means that the costs are out of control.....read, profits to the insurers, drug manufacturers, etc..
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Old 11-17-2019, 03:14 PM
 
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"really high" meaning what exactly?
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Old 11-17-2019, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Where the heart is...
4,930 posts, read 4,536,008 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrxalleycat View Post
Medicare/Medicaid spending is really high in the US.

Does that mean more and more are sick ? There are more and more baby boomers in the USA?
Yes, it is high for a variety of reasons. It is what it is and whether Americans are okay with it is another matter entirely.

Yes, there are "more and more baby boomers" coming of age in America. Perhaps more poverty and/or low income families may currently qualify for Medicaid. There is also a segment of illegal immigrants who receive Medicaid under specific circumstances as well.

This PBS article (which is over 6 years old) explains the circumstances and provisions for receiving Medicaid.

How Undocumented Immigrants Sometimes Receive Medicaid Treatment

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/...caid-treatment
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:59 AM
 
Location: equator
7,409 posts, read 3,445,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old fed View Post
"really high" meaning what exactly?
Compared to the rest of the world.

Here, for example. A rather poor, "developing" country with free health care for all. OR, if you want to pay $80 per month (for 2) there is another system of health care. Used it and it's fine. No copays or deductibles.

OR, private clinics which are so affordable, we often go to them to avoid the wait. (disclaimer: I had to wait 3 months for my hip replacement in Texas, so it happens in the U.S. too)

When my hip dislocated here, I was ambulanced to a private clinic which the national system paid for.
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:15 PM
 
2,396 posts, read 1,847,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand&Salt View Post
Compared to the rest of the world.

Here, for example. A rather poor, "developing" country with free health care for all. OR, if you want to pay $80 per month (for 2) there is another system of health care. Used it and it's fine. No copays or deductibles.

OR, private clinics which are so affordable, we often go to them to avoid the wait. (disclaimer: I had to wait 3 months for my hip replacement in Texas, so it happens in the U.S. too)

When my hip dislocated here, I was ambulanced to a private clinic which the national system paid for.
There is no such thing as free health care. People pay for it through taxes. If by free you mean everyone pays a 20% payroll tax, and any medical care you get (if you get it) costs nothing in addition to the tax you paid, yes, that's possible. But calling that free is a bit of a stretch.

There's a reason Mick Jagger flew to the US for his heart surgery. It isn't that the UK can't do it, or do it as well, it's that he didn't want to wait months, and maybe not get the procedure at all.
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Old 11-19-2019, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
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Originally Posted by jdhpa View Post
There's a reason Mick Jagger flew to the US for his heart surgery. It isn't that the UK can't do it, or do it as well, it's that he didn't want to wait months, and maybe not get the procedure at all.
Jagger's decision had nothing whatsoever to do with an NHS waiting list and everything to do with his choice of doctors. That said, self-pay is becoming more and more common in the UK - and Jagger could certainly have done that.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...vate-treatment

Instead, Jagger chose to have the work done in the US for unknown reasons. We can speculate - referral by his physicians, he 'knew someone' - whatever. Clearly he can afford whatever he wants whether it be in the UK or elsewhere. Might have been an obscure procedure - fewer side effects, faster recovery - only available here. Or was it logistics? His group was scheduled to begin a tour in US a few weeks after his surgery - so US may have been more convenient from a business standpoint at that time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Filter_Tour

That said, NHS has been systematically defunded over the years.
Quote:
“This increase in patients paying for private treatment is because of the underfunding and neglect of the NHS under the Tories. It’s a sad indictment of how bad things really are. “Given Theresa May has now abandoned the 18-week target for treatments like hip replacement and cataract operations, we fear this will drive even more vulnerable people into the hands of private healthcare some forced to pay as much as £14,880 for a hip

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...vate-treatment
Thus, waiting lists.

Last edited by Ariadne22; 11-19-2019 at 07:07 PM..
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Old 11-24-2019, 11:47 AM
 
Location: NYC
19,893 posts, read 13,411,294 times
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Everyone is paying for the boomer's health issues right now. They are the most dominant class utilizing hospital care. The costs are simply out of control because every hospitals are like an expensive 3 star hotel. They put you in and start the clock and gives you all kinds of unnecessary stuff then bill you 10x the rate for everything. Medicare is basically paying whatever the hospitals are charging then the patient just pay hundreds in co-pay upfront. That's how hospitals are making money, they have to scrape the barrel on everyone.
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Old 11-24-2019, 12:39 PM
 
2,396 posts, read 1,847,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
Jagger's decision had nothing whatsoever to do with an NHS waiting list and everything to do with his choice of doctors. That said, self-pay is becoming more and more common in the UK - and Jagger could certainly have done that.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...vate-treatment

Instead, Jagger chose to have the work done in the US for unknown reasons. We can speculate - referral by his physicians, he 'knew someone' - whatever. Clearly he can afford whatever he wants whether it be in the UK or elsewhere. Might have been an obscure procedure - fewer side effects, faster recovery - only available here. Or was it logistics? His group was scheduled to begin a tour in US a few weeks after his surgery - so US may have been more convenient from a business standpoint at that time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Filter_Tour

That said, NHS has been systematically defunded over the years.
Thus, waiting lists.
I understand what you're saying, but the article you referenced basically backs up my contention:

================================================== ===========
The biggest increases have been in those paying for procedures to relieve disabling condition, interventions that are increasingly hard for people in England to obtain on the NHS without a long wait.

“There’s no doubt that NHS waiting lists are at the heart of this growth in self-pay,” said Keith Pollard, the chief executive of Intuition Communications, which undertook the research.

The report said: “Providers have noted a direct correlation at a local level between reported excessive waiting times for surgery and demand for self-pay surgery.”

[...]

“As expert analysis shows, spending on the NHS is in line with other European countries and once again our health service was independently judged to be the best and most efficient health system in the world.”

================================================== ===========

My point is he got private medical care rather than public, which country is not the point.

'Universal' health care does not mean everyone gets all the medical care that would benefit them, it means how medical care is rationed is changed - specifically, it's decided by the government who will get care and who won't.

Last edited by jdhpa; 11-24-2019 at 12:59 PM..
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Old 11-24-2019, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
24,005 posts, read 51,836,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdhpa View Post
My point is he got private medical care rather than public, which country is not the point.
The country IS the point when Mick Jagger is the poster child for a waiting list - Mick Jagger who can afford anything anywhere at any time. Implying Mick Jagger was forced to resort to US medical services because of NHS waiting lists is a conflation of reality and not a credible analogy. A better example would be the grandma pensioner, wheelchair bound, because she cannot get her hip replacement.

If you want to make the point that UHS cannot provide all things for all people within a reasonable timeframe, I don't dispute that - which is why I cited that article you quote.

Universal health care can provide most fundamental health care services to most people at relatively low cost on a timely basis.

When one gets into the more expensive procedures, waiting lists and rationing are an issue, of course. In same countries worse than others. In the US, rationing, for sure IS a life-ending issue when one lacks health insurance. Thus, the discussion on "universal" health care.

Costs on the US are outrageous. We can get things done, but at what a price. In the US, older people before Medicare age are paying ridiculously astronomical premiums because of the layers between the provider and the patient - insurers, huge, highly profitable hospital consortiums.

Do you pay $1,000/mo. for single coverage, $2k month for you and your wife? Many between the ages of 60-65 are stuck with that - on top of which add $6k deductibles, huge OOPs, network restrictions. Our current system is a scam on the public, imo. Heath care executives paid $20 million a year, so-called 'non-profit' hospital consortiums burying billions in administrative profit under the guise of the newest and best facility, layers of administrative salaries, conferences, and executive perks.

There are tradeoffs. The US CAN design a system where reasonable profits are allowed and, at the same time, more people can be served. Right now, those who will be hurt the most financially are not helping in this design.

As always, follow the money.

Last edited by Ariadne22; 11-24-2019 at 05:25 PM..
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