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Old 07-31-2010, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Texas
44,246 posts, read 54,831,303 times
Reputation: 73244

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Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post
So some people have weird hangups with modesty and others are needlephobics.

I must admit sometimes I have seen a lack of sensitivity towards my husband's very real needlephobia and my daughter once passed out after a routine shot ......... but they realize that it is an anamoly and laugh about it too.

Modest Woman - think you need to realize you are probably simply in the minority and most folks, myself included, think nothing one way or the other about a doctor inspecting their body parts.
I have a pretty big needle phobia, too...get clammy hands and cold all over even getting a flu shot, but I don't make a fuss in front of medical people. Just hold someone's hand and suffer silently. And make sure to SIT DOWN!
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Old 07-31-2010, 01:47 PM
 
24 posts, read 178,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post
Modest Woman - think you need to realize you are probably simply in the minority and most folks, myself included, think nothing one way or the other about a doctor inspecting their body parts.
If you google under medical patient modesty, you will see a lot of results of people who are not happy with the way their modesty is treated in medical settings. I think you'll be surprised at the results you get. There's even a doctor named Dr. Bernstein who started a blog about modesty in medical settings. You will see how many people have commented on his blog and they are concerned about modesty like I am.
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Old 07-31-2010, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Texas
44,246 posts, read 54,831,303 times
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I think everyone should be respectful. That nurse with the elderly gentleman was not respectful. If everyone is respectful and kind, gender is irrelevant. Proper gowning and draping of a patient can also help with people feeling more comfortable with 'intimate' examinations.
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Greenwood Village, Colorado
2,185 posts, read 4,266,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modest Woman View Post
. But one of my friends who had a C section with a female ob/gyn had a bad experience. She had told her female ob/gyn in writing that she didn't want any medical students present, but her wishes were ignored.

.

Silly woman, didn't she realize HER doctor was a medical student once? What makes her situation so special that student can't learn from her vs everyone else?
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Gettysburg, PA
1,661 posts, read 1,706,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modest Woman View Post
If you google under medical patient modesty, you will see a lot of results of people who are not happy with the way their modesty is treated in medical settings.
If you're being treated in a medical setting, it's because there is a good chance something wrong with your body. In order to be able to treat you, medical staff have to examine it. Get over it. Immodest awkward moments are probably going to occur (for you, probably not on the part of the medical staff though). If that is too much for you to deal with, maybe you should have second thoughts about being treated in a medical facility.

The medical staff you are dealing with have seen thousands upon thousands of unclothed bodies and all the wonderful genitalia and other senstive parts people are sometimes bashful about. Yours is not going to be anything special to them and they're going to regard it the way they do everyone else's; any violation of modesty nine times out of ten is in the mind of the patient and has nothing to do with the way they are being treated by the medical personnel.
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:59 PM
 
3,627 posts, read 13,137,744 times
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I totally agree people should be sensitive and caring but to ask them to ensure either men or women are specifically present and work on a particular patient is a bit too much. Medical staffing is already a challenge at times and if only ONE specialist is needed in a facility at a particular time, it is ludicrous to think that two must be available.

You should hope for whoever is most qualified for the procedure at hand and be happy to get them.
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Old 07-31-2010, 04:10 PM
 
Location: state of procrastination
3,487 posts, read 6,529,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modest Woman View Post
Pelvic Exams don't help doctors to become better doctors. Pelvic exams have nothing to do with heart surgery at all. There are way too many pelvic exams done on women. I feel that sometimes medical students treat female patients like lab rats especially when they do pelvic exams on them without consent. I think it should be illegal for pelvic exams to be done on female patients without consent.

Go to Google and type in Citizens Against Medical Rape in Action and you will learn about some horrible non-consensual exams that are done on women without their permission. Some ghost surgeries happened. Some patients have been lied to about who would do their surgeries. A medical student actually does their surgery instead. I think it happens more in VA hospital. I heard that some bad things happened at the VA hospital in Portland, OR.

I believe all hospitals should have at least one female ob/gyn on call at all times and enough male nurses for male patients who must have intimate procedures.

There are a lot of people who care about their modesty in medical settings. Many of us would not want to let anyone of the opposite sex see us naked except for our spouses and it doesn't change in a medical setting at all. Many people feel it is special for their spouse of the opposite sex to be the only one who can see and touch their private parts.

There are some horrible modesty violation cases that you can check out. Go to Google and type medical modesty violation. One man was stripped naked for a hand surgery in a VA hospital. That makes no sense. One other man who had wrist reconstruction surgery told the doctors and nurses that they better leave his pants on during the surgery and his wishes were respected.
Well modesty wise, maybe a woman doesn't want somebody to look at her chest - that's where my example of heart surgery comes up.

You can always tell an office that you you don't feel comfortable allowing med students or residents to do a pelvic exam *before* it happens. It's understood though that in a teaching institution you will probably be examined by a student at some point in time as part of their education. Usually the surgery team will assign different tasks to different people - for example, the med students will do the pelvic exam and place the Foley catheter, then help out with monkey stuff like retracting tissue or suturing. The attendings and residents perform most of the critical parts of the surgery. It is a team effort and this is not often understood by the patient. When I had my surgeries I was always aware of these things, but many people aren't. It would avoid a lot of confusion and anger if these procedures are explained ahead of time.

Medical students should never be allowed to perform surgeries on their own, and I have never seen it happen - that would be gross negligence. The consent form usually states that you allow "Dr. So-and-so and their colleagues" to perform the procedures. This includes the attending doctor, any other attending doctors, or any resident/student under their supervision. You are not guaranteed a certain doctor just because his/her name appears on the consent form. Sometimes patients are really sensitive about the specific attending who will be doing their procedure and these patients should make certain that they make their preferences clear. However, most attendings are well qualified and it should not matter in terms of outcome.

I do agree that modesty abuses are more likely to happen in the VA hospitals. Most of the patients here are men and many are not particularly sensitive about modesty, and even sexually harass the female staff, who subsequently develop brusque personalities to deal with it. But I think it's not the med students who are in charge of these things - they are the lowest ranking personnel (even below the nursing staff) so anything they do is under order from somebody above them (i.e. the attending will order the med student to go do a pelvic exam on somebody). Most med students will not dare go do something unsupervised.

Whether a patient is stripped completely for a procedure is really a matter of patient preference versus practicality. If something bad were to happen in the middle of surgery it would be best if the patient didn't have any clothes on so they can administer the proper lifesaving treatment.

Just make your preferences really clear and you should have no problems with your modesty being respected. I'm sure the staff at most hospitals (except maybe the VA) will try to accommodate you in any way possible.

For the record, I do like the VA... but you just can't get special requests filled there. It's a government/military institution and is run as such.
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Old 07-31-2010, 04:13 PM
 
Location: state of procrastination
3,487 posts, read 6,529,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modest Woman View Post
One more thing. I have done research and I noticed that there are a lot of mannequins and even catheterization stimulators that nursing and medcial students can practice on. Gaumard sells many nice mannequins and urinary catheterization stimulators that are almost "real".
Seriously would you want to be operated on by somebody who has never had the real experience? These models don't come close to mimicking the real situation. I myself would feel extremely, extremely uncomfortable.

You can play with a prostate or birthing model all day long... or suture oranges and pig's feet... but it doesn't teach you how to handle a patient.

I think patients should just speak their minds. There is nothing intimidating about making a request. If somebody is scared or don't know the language they should just get a family member to be with them and speak for them. Some doctors and nurses are just plain rude and presumptuous - it is true - but you are gonna have your percentage of rude people in any profession. And if you really feel uncomfortable about violations you can always go and complain to the chief of staff, who will investigate. You are not helpless or voiceless by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe your complaints will help to raise awareness and help the personnel improve their performance in the future.

Last edited by miyu; 07-31-2010 at 04:33 PM..
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Old 07-31-2010, 04:34 PM
 
8,778 posts, read 17,191,643 times
Reputation: 5256
Simple solution: Don't go to the hospital! And then, when your dead because you were too "modest", the mortician will view your formerly modest body.
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Old 07-31-2010, 04:40 PM
 
9,807 posts, read 13,896,953 times
Reputation: 8171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cupcake77 View Post
Silly woman, didn't she realize HER doctor was a medical student once? What makes her situation so special that student can't learn from her vs everyone else?
If my operation is a learning experience for students, knock part of my bill off for me being part of their education !
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