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Old 08-03-2010, 07:23 PM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
9,481 posts, read 6,639,425 times
Reputation: 9945

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modest Woman View Post
Pelvic Exams don't help doctors to become better doctors. Pelvic exams have nothing to do with heart surgery at all. There are way too many pelvic exams done on women. I feel that sometimes medical students treat female patients like lab rats especially when they do pelvic exams on them without consent. I think it should be illegal for pelvic exams to be done on female patients without consent.

Go to Google and type in Citizens Against Medical Rape in Action and you will learn about some horrible non-consensual exams that are done on women without their permission. Some ghost surgeries happened. Some patients have been lied to about who would do their surgeries. A medical student actually does their surgery instead. I think it happens more in VA hospital. I heard that some bad things happened at the VA hospital in Portland, OR.

I believe all hospitals should have at least one female ob/gyn on call at all times and enough male nurses for male patients who must have intimate procedures.

There are a lot of people who care about their modesty in medical settings. Many of us would not want to let anyone of the opposite sex see us naked except for our spouses and it doesn't change in a medical setting at all. Many people feel it is special for their spouse of the opposite sex to be the only one who can see and touch their private parts.

There are some horrible modesty violation cases that you can check out. Go to Google and type medical modesty violation. One man was stripped naked for a hand surgery in a VA hospital. That makes no sense. One other man who had wrist reconstruction surgery told the doctors and nurses that they better leave his pants on during the surgery and his wishes were respected.
I am so glad to see someone speaking out about this. I share your viewpoint and always have....and have long been incredulous as to the violations by strangers women will tolerate just because it is a "medical" setting.

You are absolutely right - nothing changes in a "medical" setting, but the masses have been duped into going with "health care's" flow - on this issue and others.

Thank you so much for expressing your view.
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Old 08-03-2010, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Alexandria, VA
11,986 posts, read 21,269,649 times
Reputation: 17784
I think the basic point of the original post was that people don't have to be deprived of their dignity.
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Old 08-03-2010, 07:40 PM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
9,481 posts, read 6,639,425 times
Reputation: 9945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modest Woman View Post
There are people of different religious backgrounds who feel strongly about modesty in medical settings. I've heard of atheists, Christians, Jews, and muslims who feel strongly about modesty in medical settings. One atheist's husband was stripped naked for hand surgery. The second time he had surgery on another hand, he was not stripped naked because the wife demanded that this not happen again.

I am a Christian who was puzzled as a kid when I found out my mom went to a male gynecologist. I was taught that you were not supposed to be naked in front of the opposite sex. I didn't get it how it could be okay for a male doctor to see private parts of a woman who he was not married to. I started questioning my mom. She ignored me. But when I grew up as an adult, she started listening to me. She has not been to a male gynecologist in about 11 years. She feels that male gynecologists are indeed wrong now. She said she would have never thought about if it I had not brought it to her attention. When I made a commitment to True Love Waits (to wait to have sex until marriage) as a teenager, I also thought about how I was never going to let another man except for my future husband to see certain parts of my body. A male gynecologist is a man and not morally above other men.

I recently contacted True Love Waits and one of the co-founders agrees with me about male gynecologists being wrong. I also contacted Leslie Ludy who wrote "When God Writes Your Love Story" with her husband 6 years ago. She said that she felt it was a cultural blind spot and that many things the medical industry does violate what God intended. She said that we are taught to not question anything the medical industry does. Leslie Ludy had a midwife deliver two of her babies. As for intimate procedures, I will only go to female doctors/midwives. If I ever have knee or hand surgery, I will not take all of my clothes off and I will demand that they stay on.

I am really upset about how many patients' wishes have been violated in regard to modesty regardless of their religious backgrounds. I think that all modest people should be able to get their wishes in medical settings.

There is honestly no reason for medical students who are going to become cardiologists, ENTs, optometrists, etc. to do pelvic exams on women anyway. They are not going to do pelvic exams on women in their future practices anyway.

There are so many unnecessary pelvic exams done. I found an article by a Mayo Clinic doctor that said that pap smears are often unnecessary for virgin women because cervical cancer is usually caused by HPV (a STD).

You should Google Citizens Against Medical Rape and you will see some horrible pelvic exams that were done on women without their consent. Women have the right to refuse them. Patients can refuse any procedures they don't want period.
You are absolutely right. A male gynecologist is just like any other man on the street driven by exactly the same instincts.

Women who are so puzzled by what you're saying here would not hesitate to call the police if any other strange man so much as suggested what those in the white coats think they're entitled to do. I hope your comments make at least some of them think.

It is incredible that the vast majority seem so oblivious to the degree to which they are taken advantage of.
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Old 08-03-2010, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,417 posts, read 32,613,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
You are absolutely right. A male gynecologist is just like any other man on the street driven by exactly the same instincts.

Women who are so puzzled by what you're saying here would not hesitate to call the police if any other strange man so much as suggested what those in the white coats think they're entitled to do. I hope your comments make at least some of them think.

It is incredible that the vast majority seem so oblivious to the degree to which they are taken advantage of.
Never heard of the Hippocratic Oath, I take it?
Physicians and everyone in the medical field are held to a higher standard.
NOVA | Doctors' Diaries | The Hippocratic Oath: Modern Version | PBS
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Old 08-03-2010, 07:50 PM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
9,481 posts, read 6,639,425 times
Reputation: 9945
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
All patients have the right to refuse any treatment or exam they want. Period. So no one is being forced to do anything.

Your statements highlight your complete ignorance of the entire medical system, medical education system, medicine, physiology, and the entire disease process. Since it's unlikely you are willing to change your mind or listen to reason about how medicine and biology work, I won't go into why several statements made here are just completely wrong. There are several really wrong statements here that only exist, I imagine, to further your argument.
She's quite the opposite of ignorant - light years ahead of you in her understanding of the importance of modesty and morality in human relationships.

Most people incredibly haven't given this a moment's reflective thought. She has and it's about time the rest of you did.
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Old 08-03-2010, 07:53 PM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
9,481 posts, read 6,639,425 times
Reputation: 9945
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
Never heard of the Hippocratic Oath, I take it?
Physicians and everyone in the medical field are held to a higher standard.
NOVA | Doctors' Diaries | The Hippocratic Oath: Modern Version | PBS
Lol! You're very naive....and unfortunately you have lots of company.
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Old 08-03-2010, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,417 posts, read 32,613,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
Lol! You're very naive....and unfortunately you have lots of company.
Far from naive, with a sister as a doctor, a mother as a nurse, and a father as a pharmacist, this was dinner table conversation from the time I was a toddler.
All my parents and sisters friends were/are in the medical field, as are the majority of mine.
Care to try to insult me again?
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Old 08-03-2010, 08:03 PM
 
3,627 posts, read 13,137,744 times
Reputation: 2717
This is not about modesty and morality; it is about forcing an agenda that would double the cost of medical care by requiring staffing of physicians of a specific sex for specific procedures and ensuring that male AND female coverage is available in the event of care that requires private parts to be seen.

It is about a warped view that assumes every male is prowling on the verge of rape and has a constant erection and that every female who would dare look upon a naked man lusts after him. Come on now! Be real!

It is about limiting our care not to the best regardless of sex but to one sex only.

It seems to me that you and the OP can make your choices where you shop for medical care - and who you use. I think everyone here supports the idea of treating patients with respect and dignity.

What next - all ambulances must have 2 men and 2 women?
I assume transgendered folks could not work in a doctors office and certainly not gays or lesbians?

Their is nothing wrong with our bodies that we have to worry about hiding them. God made them and they are good bodies. Beautiful bodies. Don't you even dare to talk with me and some of the others about morality because I think if you have such hang-ups about your bodies that you are the ones struggling with the immoral thoughts.

After 30 years in a monogamous healthy relationship - I really don't need to hear this nonsense.
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Old 08-03-2010, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,417 posts, read 32,613,537 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post
This is not about modesty and morality; it is about forcing an agenda that would double the cost of medical care by requiring staffing of physicians of a specific sex for specific procedures and ensuring that male AND female coverage is available in the event of care that requires private parts to be seen.

It is about a warped view that assumes every male is prowling on the verge of rape and has a constant erection and that every female who would dare look upon a naked man lusts after him. Come on now! Be real!

It is about limiting our care not to the best regardless of sex but to one sex only.

It seems to me that you and the OP can make your choices where you shop for medical care - and who you use. I think everyone here supports the idea of treating patients with respect and dignity.

What next - all ambulances must have 2 men and 2 women?
I assume transgendered folks could not work in a doctors office and certainly not gays or lesbians?

Their is nothing wrong with our bodies that we have to worry about hiding them. God made them and they are good bodies. Beautiful bodies. Don't you even dare to talk with me and some of the others about morality because I think if you have such hang-ups about your bodies that you are the ones struggling with the immoral thoughts.

After 30 years in a monogamous healthy relationship - I really don't need to hear this nonsense.
Well said!
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Old 08-03-2010, 08:15 PM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
9,481 posts, read 6,639,425 times
Reputation: 9945
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
Far from naive, with a sister as a doctor, a mother as a nurse, and a father as a pharmacist, this was dinner table conversation from the time I was a toddler.
All my parents and sisters friends were/are in the medical field, as are the majority of mine.
Care to try to insult me again?
I'm not here to insult anyone - really I'm not.

Most women don't begin to understand male sexuality - despite it's simplicity. It is profoundly different from female sexuality. Yet they will say they "know how men are" and act like they do in almost every other situation but a doctor's office.

Absolutely no insult was intended. But it is very naive to assume that a male gynecologist isn't thinking the same thoughts that any other man would be thinking in the same setting with an attractive woman. How many he sees every day has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

The biggest lie ever repeatedly told in the history of man is when a male doctor tells an attractive woman that his only interest is her "health".
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