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View Poll Results: Does anyone still think vaccines are Kryptonite?
Yes 4 30.77%
No 6 46.15%
Unsure 3 23.08%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-08-2011, 09:53 AM
 
13,513 posts, read 19,197,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2Feebs View Post
Andrew Wakefield, as far as I'm concerned, should be taken out in front of a firing squad. That firing squad should consist of real scientists--postdocs and the like--that work for pennies trying to find answers to issues like autism, cancer, and other diseases and disorders.

He is a criminal and should be treated as such. People's kids have died over his judgement calls.
If we all thought like you, the center for disease controll and world health organization, would be first in line for execution, as we all know the huge amount of misery , death, and disease their recommended vaccines have caused. As for the good doctrs that are trying to find cures and answers for our epidemic of diseases which seem to coincidentaly have increased hugely since mass vaccination, they'll be kept busy either forever, or untill we come to our sences and stop this horrendous physical assault on our bodies...called vaccination.

 
Old 01-08-2011, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
36,974 posts, read 40,935,301 times
Reputation: 44899
Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post
I must admit, with gorwn kids, I am not as up on it as I once was but do consider that most immunizations bypass the gatekeepers of the immune system (nose, stomach) and are unatturally injected into the bloodstream (well, ok sub-q, not direct but may as well be). Oh gosh - once cell one antibody - I remember such discussions as a biochem major but over time........
What about tetanus from the good ole rusty nail? Is that the only vaccine that should be given by injection?

The route by which the vaccine antigen gets into the body is irrelevant.


Quote:
No doubt immunizations have done wonderful things but I still have concerns about them being a two edged sword. I also have concerns about the flouride, the estrogenizers in plastics, etc. No doubt we can keep folks alive longer these days but things like asthma, autoimmune diseases. I recall only ONE kid in my class as a youngster having ashtma. Now every other kid has it
.

There is no evidence that vaccines cause "autoimmune disease." The reason that more people are being diagnosed with those illnesses is that now there are blood tests for them that did not exist until fairly recently.

I am 62 years old. I had cousins with asthma. Again there is an element of diagnostic reclassification in play with asthma. Many people in the past were treated for bronchitis and went undiagnosed as asthmatic.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 07:23 PM
 
3,631 posts, read 14,513,084 times
Reputation: 2734
SuzyQ - I never said vaccines were evil things that all did a world of bad -much good has come from vaccination programs BUT - there are risks along with the benefits. You are being an ostrich with your head in the sand if you don't think there is any risk associated with the use of vaccines. There most assuredly is!

If you actually go onto pubmed.gov and good autoimmune disease and immunization you wll find a number of cases with probable causal links. My stating that is a concern of mine is not exactly chicken little saying the sky is falling.

I immunized my kids. My dogs are immunized (and on the three year cycle recommended by AAHA) One of my dogs has to work in areas populated by wild hogs - guess what, HE gets a lepto shot even though it is one of the more dangerous K9 Vaccines with the lowest efficacy (as there are many servovars) - I don't get my lepto from mail order either because the vacinnes is made in regional blends based on populations in your area (kind of like the flu vaccination, which I also get)

But I still won't assualt my dogs immune system with all given at one time and did space it out for my children who were not in day care and breastfed and believe I did the right thing for them as well

Vaccine use needs to evaluated by a risk analysis approach with eyes wide open. Nowadays we are seeing mainstream government saying, OMG, we need to REDUCE flouride in the water and they are changing the water standards as a result. No, maybe not about vaccines but hindsight really is 20/20 - there are always unintended consequences.

The AAHA has proposued a reduction in vaccine frequency for dogs several years ago - and recommends that vaccines with a likelihood of side effects (such as the leptosprirosis vaccine) NOT be give if the risk did not outweigh the benefit......

The risks are high enough that the primary way vaccine development occurs is if governments indemnify the companies against risk - something they don't do for their other drugs.....so somebody is sure thinking there is some risk, no?
 
Old 01-09-2011, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
36,974 posts, read 40,935,301 times
Reputation: 44899
Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post
SuzyQ - I never said vaccines were evil things that all did a world of bad -much good has come from vaccination programs BUT - there are risks along with the benefits. You are being an ostrich with your head in the sand if you don't think there is any risk associated with the use of vaccines. There most assuredly is!

If you actually go onto pubmed.gov and good autoimmune disease and immunization you wll find a number of cases with probable causal links. My stating that is a concern of mine is not exactly chicken little saying the sky is falling.

I immunized my kids. My dogs are immunized (and on the three year cycle recommended by AAHA) One of my dogs has to work in areas populated by wild hogs - guess what, HE gets a lepto shot even though it is one of the more dangerous K9 Vaccines with the lowest efficacy (as there are many servovars) - I don't get my lepto from mail order either because the vacinnes is made in regional blends based on populations in your area (kind of like the flu vaccination, which I also get)

But I still won't assualt my dogs immune system with all given at one time and did space it out for my children who were not in day care and breastfed and believe I did the right thing for them as well

Vaccine use needs to evaluated by a risk analysis approach with eyes wide open. Nowadays we are seeing mainstream government saying, OMG, we need to REDUCE flouride in the water and they are changing the water standards as a result. No, maybe not about vaccines but hindsight really is 20/20 - there are always unintended consequences.

The AAHA has proposued a reduction in vaccine frequency for dogs several years ago - and recommends that vaccines with a likelihood of side effects (such as the leptosprirosis vaccine) NOT be give if the risk did not outweigh the benefit......

The risks are high enough that the primary way vaccine development occurs is if governments indemnify the companies against risk - something they don't do for their other drugs.....so somebody is sure thinking there is some risk, no?
The most recent articles in PubMed do not, to me, suggest that vaccines are causing an epidemic of autoimmune diseases. Certainly Guillain Barre has been associated with flu vaccine, although it really only appeared to be a problem with the 1976 vaccine. But if there is an increased risk, it appears to be tiny compared to the benefit. And there really is little evidence that vaccines in general increase the risk of developing other autoimmune disease. See here:

http://image.thelancet.com/extras/02art9340web.pdf

"A clear distinction should be made between autoimmunity
and autoimmune disease. Autoimmunity is a feature of the
normal healthy immune system. There is little doubt that
laboratory measurable signs of autoimmunity can associate
with infection and might occasionally appear after
vaccination. It is comforting to appreciate that the immune
system has evolved sufficient fail-safe mechanisms to
ensure that these signs rarely develop into clinical disease."

Are there risks associated with vaccines? Yes, but the risks are being magnified and exaggerated to the point that people are afraid to get vaccinated.

There are risks associated with any drug. You could die from an allergic reaction to aspirin.

To me, the question should be, "What level of risk would make this vaccine unacceptable?" For me, a one in a million risk of Guillain Barre from flu vaccine is just not going to be something I will worry about.

As far as spacing vaccines or separating the combined vaccines and only giving each component separately, there is really no medical justification for that. The vaccines are just as safe given in combination as they are given separately.

I also have no problem with the vaccine compensation fund. It basically says that a specific, well defined set of illnesses that follow vaccination will qualify for compensation. The fund is an alternative to perhaps having no vaccines at all, which certainly would not be a good thing for the health of all of us.

I cannot speak to canine vaccines. We are currently dogless --- although that may change as hubby is currently perusing the ads in various dog magazines, and I know that usually presages a puppy coming home. All ours have received whatever vaccines the vet recommended and all died of advanced old age. What kind of working dogs do you have? Off topic --- just curious!
 
Old 01-09-2011, 12:44 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
36,974 posts, read 40,935,301 times
Reputation: 44899
Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post

Vaccine use needs to evaluated by a risk analysis approach with eyes wide open. Nowadays we are seeing mainstream government saying, OMG, we need to REDUCE flouride in the water and they are changing the water standards as a result. No, maybe not about vaccines but hindsight really is 20/20 - there are always unintended consequences.
The information about fluoride staining teeth is not really news. I am just surprised that a water treatment "expert" would not already know it. I suspect that the current craze with tooth-whitening --- which I cannot fathom anyway --- has a lot to do with it. People try do-it-yourself whitening and see a dentist when they cannot get the spots out. That makes people aware of the fluoride connection.

Does this mean we should not fluoridate water at all? No. The public health benefit in reducing cavities is much greater than the risk of getting tooth staining.

It's another example of "analysis paralysis" mentioned above. If we obsess over remote
possibilities, we make decisions that may not be in our own best interests.

Also, it is unreasonable to infer that because a recommendation changes that the previous recommendation was somehow defective. That would imply that there should be no new research to make us rethink the current way of doing things.
 
Old 01-09-2011, 04:08 AM
 
Location: Back in Melbourne.....home of road rage and aggression
402 posts, read 1,154,715 times
Reputation: 525
As someone who is no medical professional or scientist of any kind, I can only say that I find it interesting, and quite the coincidence, that 3 families I know had perfectly healthy and normal (healhty and normal being used in the most generic and basic form here, of course) toddlers.......until they received certain vaccinations.

In 2-4 weeks they went from being interactive, bright eyed, engaging children, to children who seemed to withdraw into themselves, who would no longer engage with anyone, and who had that look in their eyes....the one that makes you think that while they are there in body, you wonder where they are, in other areas.
Seriously these were the most adorable, laughing, cackling, fun to play with babies and seemingly overnight, they became completely different kids that all of a sudden had a million "issues": noise sensistivity, texture obsessions, the bouncing and rocking........went from being enthusiastic cuddlers to these children who screamed in terror and had melt downs if you tried to touch them. They never had those "issues" before!

I think it's got less to do with the vaccination itself, than the amount they're given at one time. I don't think their bodies can process it efficiently or something. Don't know, just find it really peculiar.

don't get me wrong.....I'm all for vaccinations and think the benefits outweigh the relative risk. I just think they should be given in smaller doses and further apart that's all.

Anyway, that's just my thoughts on it. If I had kids, they'd still get their immunisations.

 
Old 01-09-2011, 05:22 AM
 
3,631 posts, read 14,513,084 times
Reputation: 2734
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
The information about fluoride staining teeth is not really news. I am just surprised that a water treatment "expert" would not already know it. I suspect that the current craze with tooth-whitening --- which I cannot fathom anyway --- has a lot to do with it. People try do-it-yourself whitening and see a dentist when they cannot get the spots out. That makes people aware of the fluoride connection.

Does this mean we should not fluoridate water at all? No. The public health benefit in reducing cavities is much greater than the risk of getting tooth staining.

It's another example of "analysis paralysis" mentioned above. If we obsess over remote
possibilities, we make decisions that may not be in our own best interests.

Also, it is unreasonable to infer that because a recommendation changes that the previous recommendation was somehow defective. That would imply that there should be no new research to make us rethink the current way of doing things.
Uh, you do know the isue is not with teeth being stained but with kids teeth being severely damaged over time. Has nothing to do with epidemic of teeth whitening. That is why the lowered the amount of allowable flouride in tap water.

Go back and READ what I wrote - it is NOT sky is falling type stuff but saying asking questions and not blindly following the guidance given is a good thing. Obviously I made a choice to still give immunizations.
 
Old 01-23-2011, 07:16 PM
 
13,513 posts, read 19,197,466 times
Reputation: 16577
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerlillydownunder View Post
As someone who is no medical professional or scientist of any kind, I can only say that I find it interesting, and quite the coincidence, that 3 families I know had perfectly healthy and normal (healhty and normal being used in the most generic and basic form here, of course) toddlers.......until they received certain vaccinations.

In 2-4 weeks they went from being interactive, bright eyed, engaging children, to children who seemed to withdraw into themselves, who would no longer engage with anyone, and who had that look in their eyes....the one that makes you think that while they are there in body, you wonder where they are, in other areas.
Seriously these were the most adorable, laughing, cackling, fun to play with babies and seemingly overnight, they became completely different kids that all of a sudden had a million "issues": noise sensistivity, texture obsessions, the bouncing and rocking........went from being enthusiastic cuddlers to these children who screamed in terror and had melt downs if you tried to touch them. They never had those "issues" before!

I think it's got less to do with the vaccination itself, than the amount they're given at one time. I don't think their bodies can process it efficiently or something. Don't know, just find it really peculiar.

don't get me wrong.....I'm all for vaccinations and think the benefits outweigh the relative risk. I just think they should be given in smaller doses and further apart that's all.

Anyway, that's just my thoughts on it. If I had kids, they'd still get their immunisations.

It's simply AMAZING that you can witness this vaccine damage almost first hand, and STILL say that you believe in vaccination!!!!Do you think the damage to these once perfect children was worth the risk???, and WHAT risk are you talking about???
 
Old 01-23-2011, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Tucson
42,831 posts, read 87,937,233 times
Reputation: 22814
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
It's simply AMAZING that you can witness this vaccine damage almost first hand, and STILL say that you believe in vaccination!!!!Do you think the damage to these once perfect children was worth the risk???, and WHAT risk are you talking about???
It IS amazing, isn't it?!
 
Old 01-24-2011, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Austin
453 posts, read 454,483 times
Reputation: 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
Andrew Wakefield is a genious, and still has the backing of thousands of pathologists, neurologists,scientists,you name it.grannynancy is right when she notes that autoimmune diseases have increased significantly since mass vacinations began.We quadrupled the vaccinations to our infants from what kids had 30 and more years ago. Vaccines do bypass the gatekeepers of the immune system and then wrech havoc inside. Every year at about this time you can bet our ignorant mainstream media will be broadcasting their 2 favorite names, Andrew wakefield and jenny mcCarthy,in the hopes of scaring more people into getting their toxic flu shot.
If Andrew Wakefield is such a genius, then why did he have his license revoked? It's been proven many times that he falsified his research. Jenny McCarthy is as qualifed to speak on behalf of autism as Tom Cruise is for psychotherapy. If you want to preach about the ignorant mainstream media, you're right about that part. Celebrities aren't experts. I love how that woman mentioned kids that were once perfect. First of all, there's no such thing as a perfect human being. Second, if vaccines were cause of autism, more than 90 percent of the entire population would be one the spectrum. Third and finally, none of these so-called "experts" have ever been able to explain to me all those other auties and Aspies that were around long before vaccines ever were invented.

The reason more cases are being documented isn't because they're popping up sporadically. It's because the licensed professionals now have the credentials to make the proper diagnoses unlike before. Nonetheless, I'm sure many of these subjects will later be diagnosed with Landau-Kleffner or something else. When I was a lad, the trend was to dope kids up on Ritalin because they thought they all had ADHD. That has now shifted with autism. This whole "cure autism" business is an ephemeral trend. Because it's cool to be a geek and goth culture is big, there are wannabes trying to be us. Then parents think there's some kind of rational explanation for their kids being antisocial so they want to "cure" them.

They remind me of several unlicensed doctors that wanted "cure" men of being homosexual. They thought that was some kind of disease in the past. Then bisexuality was a trend during the 90's after gay pride was first recognized, so the religious right was prompted to launch some campaign saying it was a sin. This perpetuated the hate by Shirley Phelps and other radical groups. The same thing I believe is going on with autism. Nonetheless, I believe through proper guidance, education, and tutelage this will pass and more people will learn to accept and embrace it. They'll remember all the positive aspects that auties like Temple Grandin were able to contribute to society.
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