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Old 05-02-2011, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Bucks, UK
523 posts, read 3,545,810 times
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then please share the fruits of your extensive research - i'd be fascinated to read this peer-reviewed unbiased medical data.

while its seems intuitive that most alternatives are at worst going to be less harmful than smoking cigarettes, at the present time it would be patently untrue to say that ecigarettes are known/demonstrated to be safe, or even to help people quit smoking.
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Old 05-02-2011, 03:59 PM
 
22 posts, read 55,955 times
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I've used an e-cig for a while now, works great... sorry you had trouble with your green smoke, I've met some people that have used them and while they weren't jumping for joy about their quality, it did allow them to get off cigarettes which have over 8000 chemicals and additives in them, e-cigs just have small amounts of nicotine, same as the gum or patch, and other common food (USP standard) grade ingredients which can be found in just about every home as one reads this
Feel free to message me or stop by the e-cig forum
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Old 05-02-2011, 07:18 PM
 
3,111 posts, read 7,310,019 times
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On occasion, I would use an electric vaporizer for , um, tobacco.

But really, as an ex-smoker, I don't understand the electronic cigarillo. If you want better tobacco, buy the stuff without chemicals. If you want to quit, then quit.

Is it supposed to replace the feeling of having something in your mouth?
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Old 05-03-2011, 06:29 AM
 
22 posts, read 55,955 times
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Thats the keen thing about it, you dont have to think about quitting.... its like you drift away from it.... In my case, within 36 hours of getting my Ego kit, I had placed my pack of smokes in the desk drawer because I wasn't interested in them anymore... having the "hand to mouth" and "fiddling with stuff' urges covered as well helps immensely!
I'm not sure about the suggestion to buy tobacco without chemicals, seeing as its impossible unless you grow your own - even the "no additives" labeled ones there are many rules and regulations covering the curing process.
And that's the special thing about vaping, I bought my e-cig to smoke in the house, since my room mate doesn't smoke and hates the smell... now I can vape away and there's no muss, no fuss, smell, ash... and several use the e-cig without any nicotine in the liquid, its completely adjustable for everyone.
I'm happy for you DrEarth, that you won the habit battle and are now an ex-smoker!

Last edited by astichateau; 05-03-2011 at 06:40 AM..
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Old 05-03-2011, 06:50 AM
 
22 posts, read 55,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronenborg View Post
then please share the fruits of your extensive research - i'd be fascinated to read this peer-reviewed unbiased medical data.

while its seems intuitive that most alternatives are at worst going to be less harmful than smoking cigarettes, at the present time it would be patently untrue to say that ecigarettes are known/demonstrated to be safe, or even to help people quit smoking.
there's plenty to be had, Thanks for asking!!

Smoking Alternatives

David T. Sweanor, Senior Legal Counsel of the National Non-Smokers' Rights Association, commenting on behalf of the World Health Organization, recommended taking a pragmatic, multifacted approach. "For people who cannot or will not be able to exit completely both the tobacco and nicotine markets we should be looking at ways of allowing them to move to alternative forms of nicotine." [1]
Vaporized Nicotine

Personal vaporizers, also known as "electronic cigarettes" and "electronic cigars" are battery-powered devices that use an atomizer to vaporize a small amount of nicotine dissolved in a solution of water and propylene glycol, along with a flavoring agent. Propylene glycol (PG) is the substance used to produce artificial "smoke" in theatres and dance clubs. PG is Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS) by the FDA as an additive for foods and medicines. [2] Vegetable glycerin is substituted for the PG in some liquids. Liquids come in varying strengths of nicotine, including zero nicotine.
Safety: Health New Zealand conducted various tests on one brand of electronic cigarette, Ruyan, and concluded, "It is very safe relative to cigarettes, and also safe in absolute terms on all measurements we have applied." Because nothing is burned, the mist contains no smoke and is not harmful to bystanders. [3] When comparing the health effects of switching to an electronic cigarette versus continuing to smoke tobacco cigarettes some estimates of the risk reduction range as high as 99%. [4] Although long-term effects of inhaling propylene glycol are unknown, there is no evidence to date that this practice is harmful. Thus, it could be conjectured that vaporized nicotine has a similar safety profile to pharmaceutical nicotine products.
Effectiveness: The stated purpose for the products is to function as a replacement for smoking tobacco. No studies of effectiveness for achieving nicotine abstinence have been published in medical journals. However, a poll of regular users found that over 81% have completely stopped smoking tobacco cigarettes, and another 18% have reduced the number of tobacco cigarettes smoked. [5]
Pharmaceutical Nicotine

Pharmaceutical nicotine products, also known as Nicotine Replacement Therapy (NRT), include patches, gum, and lozenges available over-the-counter, and nasal spray and oral inhalers that require a prescription in the US. Pharmaceutical nicotine products are designed to help users taper down and eventually off nicotine. Dosages of nicotine has been kept low in these products to discourage creating new addictions.
Safety: "NRT has no known adverse health effects from long-term use." In the United Kingdom, warnings about smoking while using an NRT product have been removed. Although there has been concern that NRT products could trigger heart disease, in practice no such effect has been found. [6]
Effectiveness: Quit rates at 6 months range from 8 to 30%. [7] A meta-analysis of NRT treatments found that quit rates at one year average 10.7% (6.6% to 14.8%) declining further to an average of 7.2% (3.8% to 11.3%) at 4.3 years follow up. The authors concluded, "Because the long-term benefit of NRT is modest, tobacco dependence treatment might be better viewed as a chronic disorder, requiring repeated episodes of treatment." [8]
Swedish Snus

Swedish snus is a moist smokeless tobacco product that has significantly lower concentrations of cancer-causing nitrosamines than other smokeless tobacco products. The product consists of finely ground tobacco encased in a small pouch. The pouch is placed between the upper lip and gum and the nicotine is absorbed through the mucus membranes of the mouth.
Safety: Tobacco in snus is steam pasteurized, a process that kills microbes that create some of the cancer-causing toxins. There is little to no risk of lung cancer. Researchers have not found an increase in oral cancer among snus users. One study found that snus users have a risk for pancreatic cancer of 8.8 cases per 100,000, compared with 3.9 cases per 100,000 for non-users of tobacco. However, smokers had the highest risk, at 13 per 100,000. [9] Thus switching from smoking to snus reduces risks for all forms of cancer.
Effectiveness: Sweden has one of the lowest smoking rates in the world, while the use of snus is higher than in other countries. Swedish researchers examined data across the lifespan twin study (SALT). The Odds Radio for regular snus use and former smoking status was 3.7, indicating that men who used Swedish snus on a regular basis were over three times more likely to have quit smoking than to be dual users (continue smoking while using snus.) [10] Another study surveyed 6752 adult Swedes on tobacco use. They found that those who used snus were significantly less likely to start smoking. Among male smokers who later began using snus, 88% ceased daily smoking completely. Women using snus were significantly more likely to be able to stop smoking than those using nicotine patches or gum. "The main lesson of this study is that significant sections of the public would select a less harmful high-nicotine smokeless product over cigarettes and use it long term in place of smoking." [11]
Other Smokeless Tobacco Products

Smokeless tobacco products include chewing tobacco, snuff, moist snuff (snus), and dissolvables.
Safety: British researchers reviewed 89 studies and found an increased risk for cancers of the mouth and throat for past smokeless tobacco use in the USA. However, of all tobacco-attributable deaths, those caused by smokeless tobacco would represent only 1.1% if the number of smokers and smokeless tobacco users were equal. [12]
Effectiveness: Smokeless tobacco provides nicotine at levels smokers find acceptable. According to the Centers for Disease Control, one third of smokeless tobacco users in the U.S. are former smokers. гЂЂ

[1] Sweanor (2000). Is it the Nicotine or the Tobacco? Bulletin of the World Health Organization, vol.78 no.7. SciELO - Health Public

[2] FDA Database of Select Committee on GRAS Substances (SCOGS) Reviews. Propylene Glycol. http://www.accessdata.fda.gov

[3] Laugesen (2008). Safety Report on the RuyanпїЅ e-cigarette Cartridge and Inhaled Aerosol. Health New Zealand Ltd. Health New Zealand

[4] Phillips (2009). Debunking the claim that abstinence is usually healthier for smokers than switching to a low-risk alternative, and other observations about anti-tobacco-harm-reduction arguments. Harm Reduction Journal 2009, 6:29.HRJ

[5] E-Cig Success Rate? E-Cigarette Forum

[6] ASH (2007). Guidance for Health Professionals on using Nicotine Replacement Therapy for smokers not yet ready to stop smoking. ASH Australia tobacco Australia smoking Australia health law policy

[7] Kolawole (2006). Interventions to Facilitate Smoking Cessation. American Family Physician, July 15, 2006. Home Page -- American Academy of Family Physicians

[8] Etter (2006) Nicotine replacement therapy for long-term smoking cessation: a meta-analysis. Tobacco Control 2006;15:280-285. Tobacco Control - BMJ Journals

[9] Luo (2007). Oral use of Swedish moist snuff (snus) and risk for cancer of the mouth, lung, and pancreas in male construction workers: a retrospective cohort study. The Lancet, Volume 369, Issue 9578, Pages 2015 - 2020 TheLancet.com - Home Page

[10] Ferberg (2005). Is Swedish snus associated with smoking initiation or smoking cessation? Tobacco Control 2005;14:422пїЅ424. Tobacco Control - BMJ Journals

[11] Ramstrom (2006) Role of snus in initiation and cessation of tobacco smoking in Sweden. Tobacco Control 2006;15:210-214. Tobacco Control - BMJ Journals

[12] Lee (2009). Systematic review of the relation between smokeless tobacco and cancer in Europe and North America. BMC Medicine 2009, 7:36. BioMed Central | The Open Access Publisher
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Old 05-03-2011, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Bucks, UK
523 posts, read 3,545,810 times
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thank you for providing this information - i have provided a very quick review of this information below, with my bolded comments after each publication:


[1] Sweanor (2000). Is it the Nicotine or the Tobacco? Bulletin of the World Health Organization, vol.78 no.7. SciELO - Health Public

this article doesn't mention e-cigs, but does talk about the primary importance of the availability of products proven to help people quit (which e-cigs current have not), and that "cleaner" nicotine products may have a place for people who cannot, or will not, quit. it also stresses the importance of such products being marketed only with expert regulatory oversight.


[2] FDA Database of Select Committee on GRAS Substances (SCOGS) Reviews. Propylene Glycol. http://www.accessdata.fda.gov

this is just one ingredient (excipient, actually) in e-cigs - i'm not sure what the point is?


[3] Laugesen (2008). Safety Report on the RuyanпїЅ e-cigarette Cartridge and Inhaled Aerosol. Health New Zealand Ltd. Health New Zealand

there are no studies in humans included in this report, only laboratory and animal experiments, and pre-existing literature


[4] Phillips (2009). Debunking the claim that abstinence is usually healthier for smokers than switching to a low-risk alternative, and other observations about anti-tobacco-harm-reduction arguments. Harm Reduction Journal 2009, 6:29.HRJ

the author is funded by the US Smokeless Tobacco Company, quite apart from which this publication is, at best, hypothesis generating


[5] E-Cig Success Rate? E-Cigarette Forum

interesting anecdotal evidence, but totally unscientific - internet polls have obvious limitations


[6] ASH (2007). Guidance for Health Professionals on using Nicotine Replacement Therapy for smokers not yet ready to stop smoking. ASH Australia tobacco Australia smoking Australia health law policy

these guidelines relate to licensed medicines containing nicotine, not e-cigs. they came about because of a new indication of these products nicknamed "reduce to quit" which indicated that people reducing their cigarette consumption had an increased probability of an ultimate successful quit. none of this relates to e-cigs


[7] Kolawole (2006). Interventions to Facilitate Smoking Cessation. American Family Physician, July 15, 2006. Home Page -- American Academy of Family Physicians

again, this covers licensed medicines used for smoking cessation, not e-cigs, which have no placebo-controlled clinical trial data demonstrating their efficacy


[8] Etter (2006) Nicotine replacement therapy for long-term smoking cessation: a meta-analysis. Tobacco Control 2006;15:280-285. Tobacco Control - BMJ Journals

again, nothing to do with e-cigs. this is a meta-analysis of licensed medicines containing nicotine, and their effectiveness in helping people to quit. e-cigs are not included in this analysis, because there is no clinical trial efficacy data for them


[9] Luo (2007). Oral use of Swedish moist snuff (snus) and risk for cancer of the mouth, lung, and pancreas in male construction workers: a retrospective cohort study. The Lancet, Volume 369, Issue 9578, Pages 2015 - 2020 TheLancet.com - Home Page

whether cigarettes and other forms of tobacco are bad is not in dispute - we know they are. this doesnt mean other products (e.g. e-cigs) are good, especially since there is no clinical trial data to show this to be the case

[10] Ferberg (2005). Is Swedish snus associated with smoking initiation or smoking cessation? Tobacco Control 2005;14:422пїЅ424. Tobacco Control - BMJ Journals

as above


[11] Ramstrom (2006) Role of snus in initiation and cessation of tobacco smoking in Sweden. Tobacco Control 2006;15:210-214. Tobacco Control - BMJ Journals

as above


[12] Lee (2009). Systematic review of the relation between smokeless tobacco and cancer in Europe and North America. BMC Medicine 2009, 7:36. BioMed Central | The Open Access Publisher

as above



the bottom line? noone is denying that intuitively, e-cigs seem like a better alternative than smoking - however it needs to be clearly understood that there is no robust data on their efficacy with regards to helping an individual quit smoking, and there is limited information on their safety, and certainly, unbiased data from clinical trials on this subject simply does not exist.

by contrast, there are a number of licensed medicines out there (of both the nicotine-containing, and non nicotine-containing type) with demonstrated efficacy in helping people to quit, and clinical trial data in users to clearly show their safety profile.
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Old 05-03-2011, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Greenwood Village, Colorado
2,185 posts, read 4,354,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronenborg View Post
...and, just in case anyone had any misconceptions about e-cigarettes, in the US they are regulated in the same way as tobacco (as opposed to medicines) - in other words there is absolutely no evidence of their safety.

I was wondering how much safer they were if it at all. I don't smoke, but I do like a cig or two when I go out to clubs or concerts and thought about buying some of these. I just never seen anyone actually smoke an EC before.
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Old 05-03-2011, 02:40 PM
 
15,439 posts, read 21,014,194 times
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I've seen the TV ads and wondered if people are really allowed to smoke those things in public places. It seems as though a restaurant owner, or the owner of any establishment, would have the right to forbid you to "light up" -- even if you can prove it's an e-cigarette -- and would probably do so to prevent complaints.
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Old 05-03-2011, 03:02 PM
 
Location: home state of Myrtle Beach!
6,355 posts, read 19,874,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasfirewheel View Post
I've seen the TV ads and wondered if people are really allowed to smoke those things in public places. It seems as though a restaurant owner, or the owner of any establishment, would have the right to forbid you to "light up" -- even if you can prove it's an e-cigarette -- and would probably do so to prevent complaints.
If there is a no-smoking law/ban you cannot use an electronic cigarette..but it is a lot easier to sneak a puff here and there since the longer you hold the smoke the less that comes out.

Visit E-Cigarette Forum if you are considering switching.
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Old 05-05-2011, 07:03 AM
 
Location: FL U.S.A.
9 posts, read 18,930 times
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Well, I smoked for 48 yrs, developed COPD then,, after 2 yrs, switched from cigarettes to nicotine lozenges and a low-zero nicotine e-cig sold out of Miami and have not had a tobacco cigarette for over 4 mos now while also losing the well-ingrained habit of having to hold something between my fingers [the e-cigs are now gone].

They [e-cigs] are no magic solution but definitely assist overcoming the habitual aspect whereas the lozenges take care of the nicotine addiction.

Best of all is 'cold turkey'. Don't set a pack aside 'just in case', don't cut back a few per week - just Stop! [Obviously I found myself unable to do this but do know some who have]
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