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It is very difficult to get into PA school whereas some online NP schools accept anyone who can come up with the tuition and regardless of whether they have ever worked as an RN. Again, the nursing industry has to get control of the diploma mills that are flooding the market if they want to retain patient confidence. Too many of the newer NP's do not have the solid experience background that those who became NP's years ago have. The system is being watered down.
Exactly. Most PA programs only have 30-60 slots, with some having 100 slots at multiple locations as compared to medical schools that often have a couple of hundred slots. There are sometimes 1000 or more students applying for those slots at any given school. At many schools, the acceptance rates are comparable to med school acceptance rates, which is not at all the case for NP schools. That isn’t to say that there aren’t some lesser programs out there, but the people who go to these programs are highly competitive.
I don’t think most people are concerned about the majority of nurse practitioners, but just the smaller percentage who do the RN to NP direct programs through a diploma mill with very limited direct patient experience. I have gone to quite a few NPs and have been happy with the care provided, and have also been to several specialty PAs and have been happier with the care provided than by the physicians in the same practice. Currently I live in a large metro area with tons of medical schools, so everyone I see is a physician, but in states where NPs can now practice independently and there are no physicians nearby, it is a real concern.
I'm sorry I bumped this thread. I thought I had some interesting information. Despite the fact that the NPs in my little survey had MORE experience between graduation and NP school, and this experience was almost certainly in health care, and they had health care experience in undergrad, people still think NPs are unqualified, and they focus on something that probably doesn't even exist, that is, "diploma mill" NPs, without having shown that these even exist. There is no such thing as "online" clinical practicums. PAs, OTOH, with generally NO health care experience in undergrad or after, and fewer years between undergrad and PA school, are considered far more qualified.
If you're so concerned about NP "diploma mills", perhaps you should investigate PA diploma mills as well. If you're concerned about NP clinical experience, you should be concerned as well about PA clinical experience.
Frankly, I think that nurses go the NP route to build on their already extant nursing degrees when they are looking for a career "upgrade" if you will, while biology majors look into PA prgrams when they tire of medical sales, insurance work and the like. I think it's that simple.
So you're more comfortable with someone who was in medical sales prior to his two year program that purports to train him to work in just about any area of health care than with an RN with an advanced degree, or someone who worked for an insurance company before same and is now allegedly qualified to work in any area of health care. OK!
I'd have to agree with Biker in that I'd be comfortable seeking either an NP or PA if those were my choices and I really needed to see a medical professional ASAP, and my doctor was not available. As for their comparative experience and medical knowledge, I'd have to judge that on an individual basis. I've mostly seen docs in my life, and currently know only one PA who works very closely with the cardiologist I see, and I have seen this PA a few times either with the cardiologist or when the cardiologist was not available. I must say this PA seems very knowledgeable and he certainly spends the time and attention to the patient he sees. I have no idea what he did before he went to PA school, but it hardly matters, what counts IMO is his knowledge and professionalism in his current position.
I've not seen a NP as a patient but have worked with some (yrs ago when I worked in a pediatric oncology clinic) and found them to be knowledgeable-varied depending on each NP but they also worked closely with the docs in the clinic. There are two NPs who share an office with the primary care doctor I see. These NPs seem to have their own patients who routinely see them instead of the doc in that office (guess they can do this according to FL law), although the NPs will see the doc's patients if they need to be seen on short notice and the doc isn't available. I don't know anything about the newer NP there, but the other one has an excellent reputation and it seems her patients are crazy about her.
So a couple years ago, I moved to a new location across country. One of the first things I tried to establish was a health care provider. I called around to several places and I was told the same thing over and over. Basically, it's very rare that you can see an actual medical doctor here. Apparently they are booked for months. Instead, you're usually seen by a nurse practitioner or physician's assistant. I'm not trying to put down those two professions, but dang I want to see a doctor haha. I mean, there's a reason why one is a doctor and one is a nurse practitioner, right? When I was back home, it just didn't seem to be a problem. I went to the same doctor's office for most of my life and I was always able to see an actual MD. And if I had to go somewhere else, I'd usually see a doctor as well. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen anyone BUT a doctor when I had an health care appointment.
Is this a new practice, or do you think this may be a reflection of my new geographic location? I've never seen the health care field in such a bind where you can't even see an MD. I'm wondering if this is the new norm.
I have had good luck with PAs and nurse practitioners. They are much less likely to rush you through your appointment than an MD often does.
I had some broken bones from a bicycle wreck recently. The front desk at an orthopedic clinic told me the PA had 21 years orthopedic experience. He put the x-rays on a screen and took his time explaining each one in detail and welcomed my questions.
I have strong feelings about this. When I make an appointment to see a doctor, I want to see a doctor. It's not complicated. Why should I pay my full copay and the doctor bill his/her full amount to the insurance company for them to pay an PA or NP 1/2 or 1/3 their salary and me to receive care from a person who has had less education? I'm not saying NPs or PAs are incompetent; they aren't. But unless I pay less, I don't want to forego seeing an MD.
I made an appointment to see an internist for the first time. I called to verify I was seeing that particular doctor, and when I arrived, I was informed I had been assigned to see the NP. I was irritated. I had never even been to the practice before and they didn't schedule me to the doctor. I refused and insisted I see the doctor. The receptionist was surprised that I felt that way but put me in with the doctor then and for each subsequent appointment.
I'm sorry I bumped this thread. I thought I had some interesting information. Despite the fact that the NPs in my little survey had MORE experience between graduation and NP school, and this experience was almost certainly in health care, and they had health care experience in undergrad, people still think NPs are unqualified, and they focus on something that probably doesn't even exist, that is, "diploma mill" NPs, without having shown that these even exist. There is no such thing as "online" clinical practicums. PAs, OTOH, with generally NO health care experience in undergrad or after, and fewer years between undergrad and PA school, are considered far more qualified.
You are the one who bumped this thread and you continue to post inaccurate information...
PA's on average have 2000 hours of direct patient care experience prior to PA school....FACT
Where do you get this misguided notion that PA's have NO health care experience....UNTRUE
Meanwhile, as for not showing "direct entry" NP exist here. you. go.
"A direct entry NP program allows people who hold bachelor’s degrees from non-nursing programs to jump directly into an NP master’s level program. While some direct entry programs require applicants to have already earned an RN license, many others do not, which makes this an extremely attractive track for those smart and dedicated professionals looking to make a career change. A direct entry program can allow students to become licensed as an RN as well as credentialed as a nurse practitioner in two years or more." https://www.nursepractitionerschools...e-become-an-np
If you're so concerned about NP "diploma mills", perhaps you should investigate PA diploma mills as well. If you're concerned about NP clinical experience, you should be concerned as well about PA clinical experience.
Frankly, I think that nurses go the NP route to build on their already extant nursing degrees when they are looking for a career "upgrade" if you will, while biology majors look into PA prgrams when they tire of medical sales, insurance work and the like. I think it's that simple.
You really have no idea what you are talking about do you???
Medical sales and insurance work does not count toward's patient care hours for PA school....FACT
There are also NO PA diploma mills....
Please reference even ONE such program since you claim they exist....
You are the one who bumped this thread and you continue to post inaccurate information...
PA's on average have 2000 hours of direct patient care experience prior to PA school....FACT
Where do you get this misguided notion that PA's have NO health care experience....UNTRUE
Meanwhile, as for not showing "direct entry" NP exist here. you. go.
"A direct entry NP program allows people who hold bachelor’s degrees from non-nursing programs to jump directly into an NP master’s level program. While some direct entry programs require applicants to have already earned an RN license, many others do not, which makes this an extremely attractive track for those smart and dedicated professionals looking to make a career change. A direct entry program can allow students to become licensed as an RN as well as credentialed as a nurse practitioner in two years or more." https://www.nursepractitionerschools...e-become-an-np
There is NO such program above for PA's
My information was not inaccurate. I gave some statistics from the NP/PA group at CBCI.
I got my very accurate information that many PAs come into programs with no health care experience from the link I posted earlier. Most were working at non-clinical jobs, even if they were nominally in health care, e.g. selling medical equipment.
In the link you posted and quoted, the candidate gets their RN during their NP program. I do not believe I said anything to the contrary, but I don't feel like going back through this whole thread to check. That is NO different than a student going into a PA program with a sales background.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz
You really have no idea what you are talking about do you???
Medical sales and insurance work does not count toward's patient care hours for PA school....FACT
There are also NO PA diploma mills....
Please reference even ONE such program since you claim they exist....
I never said that medical sales and insurance work counted toward a PA program. Try reading for comprehension. That's the background some of the PA students came in with.
I don't know of any NP "diploma mills". That was my point. If people are concerned about diploma mills, they ought to be concerned about them for all.
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