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Old 08-05-2011, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,020 posts, read 26,266,810 times
Reputation: 11309

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistygrl092 View Post
And everybody is different. I can't tell you how many drugs I've been told are weight neutral but are not (for me, at least). I've googled and found numerous posters recount their experiences with everything from weight gain, to hair loss, etc. In fact, I just learned a drug I've been taking for five years CAN put on weight for some people and that it can cause blood problems. No Dr. mentioned this to me, rather I called my Dr. to tell him this.

This is why I do not blindly follow what Drs tell me, nor do I bet on the drug manufacturer's site, but I actually go to forums with real live people who are taking said drug.

I also make it a habit to do my own drug interaction checker online and I double check with pharmacists for this and to answer any questions I might have about the prescription itself or the prescriber.

Anyway, I point all this out to emphasize that everyone is different and that people should not paint with too wide a brush. There are many reasons why people are as they are that go beyond "just eat less and exercise more," although that is important. However, it doesn't always work like a snap.

And I would really appreciate it if you would stop with the insults as you just demonstrate your ignorance in doing so. And I am wondering why you started this thread if it wasn't just to bash those different from you or to cause a problem. God knows you've gone out of your way to insult people.
This is one thing that is FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with the United states.

The notion that stethescreeps and pills can save anything, from depression to sleeplessness to blah blah blah....

In my culture, we don't take a pill even with severe headaches. There's a common belief that the body can heal itself very well, unless the infection is serious. Meds for depression is unheard of - depression was combated by activities like hanging out with family, having a circle of friends or going to public places, physical activities, cooking, watching movies, going to another city for visiting etc.......

So the result, you have a population of chemically and pharmaceutically warped individuals, with one million mental problems.

 
Old 08-05-2011, 02:09 PM
 
5,546 posts, read 8,865,792 times
Reputation: 2780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Americanwoman54 View Post
Some information for both bipolar and depression and the meds prescribed:

when lithium is taken: Weight gain can occur with lithium. At first almost everyone will gain a few pounds as their body hangs on to more water (salt effect). Some people can continue to gain weight, though. This is much less of a problem with lithium than with valproate, both in how often it happens and how much weight is gained. Usually at this point we will switch medications, but some people can control the weight issue with regular exercise, wise eating, and avoiding alcohol entirely -- all good health habits anyway.

when valporate is taken:Most people get no side effects at all at low doses. But weight gain is a big problem at higher doses. See “preventing weight gain” below on how to keep that from happening to you.
Weight gain is very common at medium or high doses, but not common at 1000mg or less. Fortunately, it does not usually “sneak up” on you. You will notice a huge increase in appetite first. You want to eat frequently, eat a lot, and even feel hungry just after eating. Fortunately again, the appetite increase is like a light switch: it’s either “on”, or “off”. If you notice your appetite go up, then call your doctor and ask about moving the dose down. As you lower the dose, the “switch” goes “off” for almost everyone (rarely, some just have to stop). Recently the makers of Depakote produced an extremely slow release version of their pills they believe causes less trouble with this unusual appetite increase, and thus does not cause weight gain. If Depakote ER is available to you at the same cost as divalproex, or close, it may be worth using the ER version . People can get their dose higher with this version than with divalproex, in most cases, without causing weight gain, and get the same benefit in terms of symptom control.

I couldn't find though, how much actual weight is usually gained. But I would think that if one went to the morbidly obese side, the person's doctor would definitely intervene and help out with either change of meds or nutrition advice.
Valid points, but you fail to mention several drugs. There are people who NEED to be on 1200 mgs of Seroquel to function. There are people who should NOT be switched to another medication or one runs the risk of making things worse. Some bipolar meds target those on the manic side, some target those on the depressed side.

And even in depression, it's often hit or miss as to whether an SSRI, SNRI, MAOI, an atypical anti-depressant or even augmentation with a low dose of an anti-psychotic is the best way to go. Unfortunately, shrinks haven't come up with a way to measure just what neurotransmitters are out of whack so, as you might know, a lot of it is trial and error.

The drug manufacturers can say whatever they want about a drug being weight neutral as can the docs, but it's the individual patient who is going to be the true test in what works. And this applies to all drugs across the board frequently. Everyone's chemistry is different so the results will be different as well. For example, I can't sleep on Ambien for more than around three hours. An oddity? Sure, but that is how I metabolize the drug. And as an FYI to anyone who is interested, those who sleep five hours or less will be more overweight (generally) than those who can get a solid night's sleep. Why? Due to cortisol levels in sleep deprived people it's even harder to lose weight.

Well, I could go on and on but I won't.
 
Old 08-05-2011, 02:19 PM
 
5,546 posts, read 8,865,792 times
Reputation: 2780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antlered Chamataka View Post
This is one thing that is FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with the United states.

The notion that stethescreeps and pills can save anything, from depression to sleeplessness to blah blah blah....

In my culture, we don't take a pill even with severe headaches. There's a common belief that the body can heal itself very well, unless the infection is serious. Meds for depression is unheard of - depression was combated by activities like hanging out with family, having a circle of friends or going to public places, physical activities, cooking, watching movies, going to another city for visiting etc.......

So the result, you have a population of chemically and pharmaceutically warped individuals, with one million mental problems.
Ok, there are "the blues" and then there is clinical depression - a world of difference. What your culture does is wonderful, but if a person has asthma or high blood pressure or is diabetic it just might take a bit more to fix them than what you mention. Likewise with clinical depression or any other serious mental illness.

I don't take pills for headaches either, but you can be sure I don't miss taking the ones I need to take. This stigma around mental illness must go away. You don't fault a diabetic for taking insulin, do you? Why any different when it comes to mental illness? (and I am not talking the blues). I'm talking being clinically depressed to the point of being catatonic, suicidal, manic, hearing voices, hallucinations, psychosis, etc.

Anyway, this topic has really gone off track. I merely point out the complexities inherent in certain situations and being fat, fat, fat just might fall into that category for some people.
 
Old 08-05-2011, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,020 posts, read 26,266,810 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistygrl092 View Post
Ok, there are "the blues" and then there is clinical depression - a world of difference. What your culture does is wonderful, but if a person has asthma or high blood pressure or is diabetic it just might take a bit more to fix them than what you mention. Likewise with clinical depression or any other serious mental illness.

I don't take pills for headaches either, but you can be sure I don't miss taking the ones I need to take. This stigma around mental illness must go away. You don't fault a diabetic for taking insulin, do you? Why any different when it comes to mental illness? (and I am not talking the blues). I'm talking being clinically depressed to the point of being catatonic, suicidal, manic, hearing voices, hallucinations, psychosis, etc.
Becoz mental illness is abstract. It needs human form of therapy. The human brains is not an element so some chemist can pour chemicals on it.

There are mental asylums in India and they are treated in various native hindu ways like yoga, asanas and chanting where they are made to discover inner peace. And guess what, it's free. Maybe the free has changed now, but they don't send you a bill which wrecks your savings like a rocket launcher was sent into your bank locker
 
Old 08-05-2011, 02:41 PM
 
Location: US Empire, Pac NW
5,008 posts, read 11,053,924 times
Reputation: 4125
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistygrl092 View Post
This just shows you do not know what you are talking about. Depakote and Tegretol are two drugs that will pack on 75 lbs easily. These drugs are not taken for thyroid conditions. There are more, of course. I take medications that can also increase weight gain.

And how is someone being fat a sheer disregard for you, unless you're stuck sitting next to one on a plane?
Just goes to show the ridiculous methods we are using to "help" people with drugs. Just the other day I heard an advertisement for a drug to help people stay awake during the graveyard shift, but they went so far as to call being tired at night "swing shift syndrome." SYNDROME?!?!? **** that, it's called being sleepy because it's f-ing midnight, people shouldn't have to work those hours!

And people being fat causes me to pay more in taxes to medicare and medicaid and pay more on my insurance premiums because more fatties are dying of heart disease, getting gastric bypass surgeries, and then stuffing their mouths with more food. I'd say that's pretty self-centered if you ask me. Someone being fat isn't just someone being fat. It's making three or four people pay more for their medical services just so that fat person can continue their "disorder"
 
Old 08-05-2011, 02:45 PM
 
Location: US Empire, Pac NW
5,008 posts, read 11,053,924 times
Reputation: 4125
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoTzuMindFu View Post
Would you have the guts to call a fat person "FAT PERSON" to their face?
You should see the look on their face when I refuse to walk around fat people LOL. Sheer disregard for others is what they have. I have no qualms about calling someone fat to their face. Truth hurts. Get off your ass and ****ing quit eating 5000 calories a day.
 
Old 08-05-2011, 02:51 PM
 
5,546 posts, read 8,865,792 times
Reputation: 2780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antlered Chamataka View Post
Becoz mental illness is abstract. It needs human form of therapy. The human brains is not an element so some chemist can pour chemicals on it.

There are mental asylums in India and they are treated in various native hindu ways like yoga, asanas and chanting where they are made to discover inner peace. And guess what, it's free. Maybe the free has changed now, but they don't send you a bill which wrecks your savings like a rocket launcher was sent into your bank locker
Like I said, I think your culture is wonderful and I wish some of your ways would be incorporated into Western medicine. You're right. Mental illness is abstract, but that doesn't make it any less real. Part of the problem is when people negate its existence and don't go for help. And studies have shown time and time again that combining drugs with talk therapy is the best way to go. This US culture is sort of isolating in case you haven't noticed.

200 or 300 years ago they used blood letting to treat mental illness. I've read the history of psychiatry and parts of it are not pretty. I own a book called Toxic Psychiatry! Part of me thinks of these psychotropic drugs as a form of chemical lobotomy. HOWEVER, I have seen serious mental illness up close and personal and can most definitely say some people need drugs. The brain is an organ and can get sick just like any other organ.

Relating it back to being overweight. Some people eat because certain foods raise serotonin levels. Some people don't live in your healthy culture and food is their only comfort. There have been studies that show an overlap between eating disorders (and I'd argue morbid obesity is an eating disorder) and alcoholism, substance abuse and other imbalances. Some people were just not born with a healthy baseline of neurotransmitters in the first place. Some turn to working 24/7, some turn to exercise, some turn to gambling, some turn to food, some turn to alcohol. Some people do not have a support system like you do. Consider yourself fortunate. There really is no reason to judge people so harshly for being human and not perfect.
 
Old 08-05-2011, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Central Florida
973 posts, read 1,528,816 times
Reputation: 1102
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistygrl092 View Post
Valid points, but you fail to mention several drugs. There are people who NEED to be on 1200 mgs of Seroquel to function. There are people who should NOT be switched to another medication or one runs the risk of making things worse. Some bipolar meds target those on the manic side, some target those on the depressed side.

And even in depression, it's often hit or miss as to whether an SSRI, SNRI, MAOI, an atypical anti-depressant or even augmentation with a low dose of an anti-psychotic is the best way to go. Unfortunately, shrinks haven't come up with a way to measure just what neurotransmitters are out of whack so, as you might know, a lot of it is trial and error.

The drug manufacturers can say whatever they want about a drug being weight neutral as can the docs, but it's the individual patient who is going to be the true test in what works. And this applies to all drugs across the board frequently. Everyone's chemistry is different so the results will be different as well. For example, I can't sleep on Ambien for more than around three hours. An oddity? Sure, but that is how I metabolize the drug. And as an FYI to anyone who is interested, those who sleep five hours or less will be more overweight (generally) than those who can get a solid night's sleep. Why? Due to cortisol levels in sleep deprived people it's even harder to lose weight.

Well, I could go on and on but I won't.
And I don't think you need to as I am sure others will back me up on this. First, I want to thank you for the explanation of where you are "coming from" as that is what we are all doing, really as no matter what thread we comment on, that comment is usually based on either our own experience or personal observations, and in this instance the OP noticed the disparity of fat people to those who are either at or close to their ideal weight. And you cannot deny that those numbers are growing (and I think I had a minor epiphany that I will share further down). As for my own personal experience, I hope you read my post about my morbidly obese friend as she became 250 lbs overweight due to making food her "comfort" and refusing to exercise. But besides this, I too, was once obese, due to the same thing and was known to come home after school stressed out, and taking out a frozen Pepridge Farm cake and not even waiting for it to thaw, before I began to eat it...and didn't finish until it was totally gone. I knew I couldn't go on like this as I was in size 18/ 20 at 5'9" and was miserable. SO, I took control of my life and changed my eating habits and became serious about working out, so this is why I put in my 2 cents on this thread as I am like the OP who is worried about the "shape" of this country both literally and figuratively, esp. seeing the people in Europe who are mainly thin (except for the UK).

And now, I would like to address this post. You are right about everyone's chemistry being different, and for some people that chemistry is definitely working against them as well as lack of sleep. I am sorry that you are going through this, and sorry too that some people have seemed a bit "righteous" when it comes to this very sensitive topic, and that really is not fair to those people like yourself.

Now in my humble opinion, obesity is not as bad as morbid obesity as I really think the standards are not fair to women who have big breasts and hips naturally or have muscle (like me and I am at the HIGH end of my weight due to that fact). But when someone is morbidly obese, then we have problems on so many levels, and those numbers are growing as people are trying to figure out why. In the 70's the highest figure for obesity is now the lowest, but again why?? Yes, our diet has changed; we have become more sedentary and often in the "slug" mode; our food is grown differently, sugar is in everything, people drink Coke like it is water, fast food is only 60 years old but really taking off in the 70's, SUPERSIZE me and ALL U CAN EAT have become the watchword, and so on, and these factors are more than likely to blame for most of our problems, but your post is where my mini-epiphany comes in. And I am not sure I am totally right, but I think it has some bearing. All these drugs that you mentioned...and others...when were they all developed?? Within the last 40 years, maybe??? and if so, that could be the problem, as well for our rise in obesity as we have become a pill popping nation. Now I am not saying that taking meds for something like being bi-polar is not good, but look how many drugs there are now for depression and other ailments that before, there were none. So combined with how we eat and lack of exercise, I think meds have become a problem as well..... BUT it is HARD to discern for the most part, which people are which; but with that said, the ones due to meds are in the VAST MINORITY, would you not agree??? And so then it is the MAJORITY of morbidly obese people whom this thread is addressed to, I think.

And with that I will take my leave. AND thank you for sharing your story as I do think it needed to be told.

Regards

Last edited by Sagitarrius48; 08-05-2011 at 03:18 PM.. Reason: because I never PREVIEW my post! LOL
 
Old 08-05-2011, 03:11 PM
 
5,546 posts, read 8,865,792 times
Reputation: 2780
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve View Post
You should see the look on their face when I refuse to walk around fat people LOL. Sheer disregard for others is what they have. I have no qualms about calling someone fat to their face. Truth hurts. Get off your ass and ****ing quit eating 5000 calories a day.
You know, there but for the Grace of God go you. How will you feel if you are in a horrible car accident someday and horribly disfigured? What if you become a quadraplegic? How are you going to feel when people refuse to walk around you?

Maybe someone will say "well, if he'd been a better driver..."

Some people are just so clueless. I'd say the majority in this thread and I almost feel like Einstein "talking" with some of you people.

In fact, this is a complete waste of my time. Have fun with your continued bashing. I'm sure it makes all of you and the OP feel superior in some way. How sad.
 
Old 08-05-2011, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 18,164,725 times
Reputation: 7724
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve View Post
And people being fat causes me to pay more in taxes to medicare and medicaid and pay more on my insurance premiums because more fatties are dying of heart disease, getting gastric bypass surgeries, and then stuffing their mouths with more food. I'd say that's pretty self-centered if you ask me. Someone being fat isn't just someone being fat. It's making three or four people pay more for their medical services just so that fat person can continue their "disorder"

Ok, let me ask it again: How much have your healthcare costs gone down since more than half of smokers have quit? How about your insurance premiums? Taxes? Gotten a break yet? By now, you should be seeing substantial savings and maybe even qualify for a rebate.

But, no, your costs, taxes and premiums haven't changed, have they? If fact, I suspect they've gone up...right?

So...what makes you think it would be any different if all the big people suddenly got "healthy?"
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