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Old 10-17-2011, 03:25 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
9,989 posts, read 17,904,175 times
Reputation: 14302

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngletNYC View Post
My google button isn't broken. I asked for Stepka's opinion and not yours because she isn't speaking to me based on a google search. She speaks based on personal experience. So thanks for showing off your google skills, but I am not impressed. You've actually repulsed me instead.
Yikes, that was uncalled for--she's trying to help b/c she knows I'm not up on it. I can't afford it so I haven't done the research but Suzy has a lot of knowledge so it's not just a google search.
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:09 PM
 
26,215 posts, read 33,042,653 times
Reputation: 23533
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Anyone has the right to decline treatment or testing at any time.

However, you supposedly are going to a physician in order to take advantage of his knowledge and expertise. Why bother to go if you do not wish to follow his advice?

It also seems a bit dishonest to just toss the script.

Why not ask the doc, "What will happen if we do not follow this line of treatment at this time?"

For example, many people put off having a colonoscopy because they dread the prep and they find the procedure embarrassing. The consequences of not doing the test can be a cancer down the road that could have been prevented by removing a polyp.

As far as procedures in the over 90 age group are concerned, keep in mind that not every person in that age group has dementia. Some are even still living independently or semi-independently. For such a person, the insertion of a pacemaker could be very worthwhile with a significant improvement in quality of life.

Some tests are done for diagnosis, such as a colonoscopy in someone who has had bleeding, and some are done for screening, such as a colonoscopy in someone with no symptoms at all.

Blood tests done for screening often come back normal, which is good. You would never find out about diabetes if you never had your blood sugar tested, though.

The fact that a test comes back normal does not mean that it was not indicated.

At the end of every visit to your doctor, you should understand what your diagnosis is, the alternatives for treatment, and what to expect if you do or do not have the treatment that the doc recommends. This requires a dialog. If you just sit there, take the script, and then throw it away, you mislead the doctor into thinking you understand his reasoning. If you never ask what the rationale behind his thinking is, you may make a decision that would be different from what you would have made if you asked a few more questions.

Then you can make an informed decision that you and the doc both agree on. Be prepared, though. If you are confrontational, challenge everything the doc says, and refuse things the doc feels are reasonable and prudent, you may be asked to find another physician because the doc does not want to deal with the potential fallout of your decisions down the road.
I often agree with you. And yes there is a potential liability. But the patient at any time has a right to stop treatment. That is where asking question and have a conversation that is two way goes a long ways towards that end. I don't care for doctors who push treatments of whatever that are not releated to my complaint.

Yes there are times when refusing might be in your best interest. In the grand scheme you are your biggest advocate in medical treatment.
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Old 10-17-2011, 05:11 PM
 
Location: NJ
12,639 posts, read 22,585,965 times
Reputation: 11557
Quote:
Originally Posted by OngletNYC View Post
Can you believe that a doctor would tell me to get one at the age of 41??? I would most likely start going through menopause as a result... At 41! She was like, "well you really don't need any a uterus or ovaries since you aren't trying to have a child."

Do people routinely recommend that men get castrated? Because that is what a hysterectomy is like for women. It's an epidemic, unneeded hysterectomies, because so many doctors are money-grubbing ghouls.

I wish you lived in NYC, I would ask you to refer me to your doctor! Can you tell me about the minor surgery recommended to you?
You would not believe the number of young girls that have gotten one. I go to a few FB pages; 17, 19, early 20's. I swear my jaw dropped on the floor. They had painful periods; already had a kid or 2 & decided it was the best birth control so they didn't question it.
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Susquehanna River, Union Co, PA
885 posts, read 1,344,919 times
Reputation: 1151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr View Post
You would not believe the number of young girls that have gotten one. I go to a few FB pages; 17, 19, early 20's. I swear my jaw dropped on the floor. They had painful periods; already had a kid or 2 & decided it was the best birth control so they didn't question it.
I had a doc tell me at 30-some that the uterus was for "making babies and causing problems."

I never went back
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:57 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
9,989 posts, read 17,904,175 times
Reputation: 14302
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Anyone has the right to decline treatment or testing at any time.

However, you supposedly are going to a physician in order to take advantage of his knowledge and expertise. Why bother to go if you do not wish to follow his advice?

As far as procedures in the over 90 age group are concerned, keep in mind that not every person in that age group has dementia. Some are even still living independently or semi-independently. For such a person, the insertion of a pacemaker could be very worthwhile with a significant improvement in quality of life.
I do agree that I need to find a better doc and I'm looking into seeing someone of the functional and integrated medicine specialty. Right now I don't have the best doc--this is the one who ignored my hair loss completely. But when I want to have a lab test ordered or have someone write scrips, I really need to see someone with an MD. So it's not always true that I am going to take advantage of her expertise. I am never argumentative though--I will dishonestly toss the scrips if I feel the need to.

How right you are that not everyone over 90 is demented--G-ma still had every one of her marbles which is why I trusted her to make her own medical decisions and if she didn't want that lump removed then I wasn't going to push her. As it was, I feel that it was the best decision b/c she had quality of life up till the end as her worst fear was ending up in a nursing home and that never happened. I agree about the pacemaker though--whatever adds quality of life and keeps independence is my attitude.

One reason I started this thread too is b/c of an attitude that I often see in people--that they can live their life any way they want and eat any way they want and then they can go to the doc and get it fixed, like taking your car into a mechanic. Had a coworker a few weeks ago tell me she was going to take off the afternoon to see a doc for her cold b/c she wanted to be better for the weekend. As if a doc could get rid of a cold for you. I just rolled my eyes and enjoyed my weekend, even though I had the same cold and she was sick 2 more weeks after she took the antibiotics.
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Old 10-17-2011, 07:54 PM
 
Location: earth?
7,288 posts, read 11,255,170 times
Reputation: 8956
I have turned down or not done 80% of what has been suggested to me and I thank God! I would be a drug addict, for sure, if I took all of the drugs that have been prescribed to me over the years. Very reckless doctors out there! And so many unnecessary procedures . . .

I'm not dumb and do my own research and am my own advocate.
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:19 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
11,350 posts, read 21,802,361 times
Reputation: 27177
I've turned down tests for myself, and refused to give my kids certain medications, usually antibiotics.

I've stopped taking a medication because the side effects were worse than the problem it was trying to correct...one example was a blood pressure med that gave me a nonstop migraine. The doctor insisted I try it for two weeks, I made it three days. Went back to the doc in two weeks, my blood pressure was fine. The original reading that had the doc worried was taken right after I broke my leg and was in horrible pain.
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:31 PM
 
Location: not new to houston anymore
276 posts, read 758,222 times
Reputation: 252
on the subject of unnecessary antibiotics, most doctors dont like to prescribe them unless they feel u need them....BUT after seeing the numerous patient eye rolls and after having many disgruntled patients complain that the doctor "didn't do anything for" them and then calling them the day after (like the 2nd day of their symptoms), a majority of drs will give u an antibiotic when u go in for cold-like symptoms. if u go in for that and don't want meds, u might want to let them know ur expectations (i.e. i just want to know if i have pneumonia or something that requires antibiotics...otherwise i'd rather not have any antibiotics.). that would be refreshing.

also, be aware that a lot of the testing (like the endometrial bx or endoscopy that someone mentioned above) is done to rule out very harmful problems (like uterine or gastric cancer) even though there may be a low chance that the test will be positive for a harmful problem. problem is, even if the possibility of you having that problem is 5%, they will not want to miss it. no dr wants to see their patient die....or have the family sue them. they're not "pushing" it on you for fun, it's because they don't to miss a cancer or something else. when they ask you to be compliant with taking plavix, it's so that you don't have a stroke (or heart attack). when they treat a 90 year old lady it's because they figure that she wants to live longer and if they have the means to help, they will. of course in the case of an elderly patient, they should also be open to hearing that they'd rather go with hospice....
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:09 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
9,989 posts, read 17,904,175 times
Reputation: 14302
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtohouston2 View Post
on the subject of unnecessary antibiotics, most doctors dont like to prescribe them unless they feel u need them....BUT after seeing the numerous patient eye rolls and after having many disgruntled patients complain that the doctor "didn't do anything for" them and then calling them the day after (like the 2nd day of their symptoms), a majority of drs will give u an antibiotic when u go in for cold-like symptoms. if u go in for that and don't want meds, u might want to let them know ur expectations (i.e. i just want to know if i have pneumonia or something that requires antibiotics...otherwise i'd rather not have any antibiotics.). that would be refreshing.

also, be aware that a lot of the testing (like the endometrial bx or endoscopy that someone mentioned above) is done to rule out very harmful problems (like uterine or gastric cancer) even though there may be a low chance that the test will be positive for a harmful problem. problem is, even if the possibility of you having that problem is 5%, they will not want to miss it. no dr wants to see their patient die....or have the family sue them. they're not "pushing" it on you for fun, it's because they don't to miss a cancer or something else. when they ask you to be compliant with taking plavix, it's so that you don't have a stroke (or heart attack). when they treat a 90 year old lady it's because they figure that she wants to live longer and if they have the means to help, they will. of course in the case of an elderly patient, they should also be open to hearing that they'd rather go with hospice....
You make some excellent points here. Too many people, like my coworker, just want to go to the doc and "get fixed," and they assume that the antibiotics will do that. I certainly don't think all the burden of blame lies with the doctors.

As for the tests that are to rule out the 2% possibility that you may have something: I know that's right also and if the patient decides not to have the test done, then the burden of responsibility has now transferred to the patient and not the doc and the doc has it on record that he/she ordered it and can cover themselves that way. This is where discussions between docs and patients can be so useful but few docs now have time for that.
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:16 PM
 
Location: earth?
7,288 posts, read 11,255,170 times
Reputation: 8956
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtohouston2 View Post
on the subject of unnecessary antibiotics, most doctors dont like to prescribe them unless they feel u need them....BUT after seeing the numerous patient eye rolls and after having many disgruntled patients complain that the doctor "didn't do anything for" them and then calling them the day after (like the 2nd day of their symptoms), a majority of drs will give u an antibiotic when u go in for cold-like symptoms. if u go in for that and don't want meds, u might want to let them know ur expectations (i.e. i just want to know if i have pneumonia or something that requires antibiotics...otherwise i'd rather not have any antibiotics.). that would be refreshing.

also, be aware that a lot of the testing (like the endometrial bx or endoscopy that someone mentioned above) is done to rule out very harmful problems (like uterine or gastric cancer) even though there may be a low chance that the test will be positive for a harmful problem. problem is, even if the possibility of you having that problem is 5%, they will not want to miss it. no dr wants to see their patient die....or have the family sue them. they're not "pushing" it on you for fun, it's because they don't to miss a cancer or something else. when they ask you to be compliant with taking plavix, it's so that you don't have a stroke (or heart attack). when they treat a 90 year old lady it's because they figure that she wants to live longer and if they have the means to help, they will. of course in the case of an elderly patient, they should also be open to hearing that they'd rather go with hospice....
All of the needless testing is for liability reasons, i.e., medical malpractice insurance reasons . . .

All of the unnecessary surgery is to line pockets . . .same with all of the RX prescriptions. I seriously wonder if doctors are just really dumb on some level (not to question the "medical model" and all of the pressure to conform) or if they just drink the Kool-aid and become Stepford doctors . . .mixed up some metaphors, but I think it works!
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