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Old 10-18-2011, 03:21 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
9,973 posts, read 17,888,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious View Post
The topic is "Have you ever turned down medical treatment?" Some of the answers to that question, if you have turned down medical treatment (which many of us have) is that the doctors are prescribing treatments and medications based on something other than strictly health inspired reasons . . .I was simply pointing that out.

I personally believe if you don't speak up, then you are colluding with the corrupt system, whichever corrupt system you find yourself in . . .

These subjects aren't just black and white - there are complex systems and politics driving them.
My issue was not with what you said but how you said it and who you attacked. I couldn't agree more with your last sentence in this post especially, but why attack individual doctors for a behemoth that they didn't create? The doctors are a product of their education and environment, just as we are, and I'd be curious as to how long they'd last if they go renegade or even just follow their own ideas? How long it would take them to get sued for missing an important diagnosis b/c they failed to order that expensive test that they were pretty sure wouldn't be necessary? I'm pretty sure that even the dumbest doctor knows a lot more about medicine than I do but I'm also pretty sure that the smartest doctor doesn't know my body and my goals as well as I do.
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:38 PM
 
Location: not new to houston anymore
276 posts, read 757,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious View Post
Why don't you tell us why doctors tend to over-prescribe super DANGEROUS and/or ADDICTIVE medications at the drop of a hat?

Why all of the unnecessary tests?

Do you EVER rely on your gut instincts and forgo tests that you "should" prescribe (because it is the holy "protocol"???)

Do you feel pressured when the young, attractive drug company representatives call on you and ply you with samples of "new and improved" medications? What are those meetings like? (Let me guess, dismissing side-effects as "uncommon" and extolling the virtues of the new drugs . . .why do you even see the drug peddlers?)

what super dangerous drugs are over prescribed? and dont say statins because they're given with the goal of preventing super dangerous heart attacks and strokes. addictive meds? because there's some benefit to addictive meds for some people, esp when other things won't do the job (like vicodin after a major surgery). doctors SHOULD warn their patients that they are potentially addictive, but im sure a lot don't. unnecessary tests? i already explained that--dont want to miss something lethal. gut instincts? are you serious? i dont want anyone treating me according to their "gut instincts" instead of "holy protocols"--which are really just the protocols made based on the evidence we have so far. drug reps? i like generic meds personally (they've been around some time, they work, and they're cheap, they dont come attached to a drug rep), u should just ask if there is a generic alternative for u.
look, if u dont trust your doctor, u should find one that u can trust. if u dont trust any doctors (an entire profession), then there's not much left to say.
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:19 PM
 
Location: earth?
7,288 posts, read 11,247,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newtohouston2 View Post
what super dangerous drugs are over prescribed? and dont say statins because they're given with the goal of preventing super dangerous heart attacks and strokes. addictive meds? because there's some benefit to addictive meds for some people, esp when other things won't do the job (like vicodin after a major surgery). doctors SHOULD warn their patients that they are potentially addictive, but im sure a lot don't. unnecessary tests? i already explained that--dont want to miss something lethal. gut instincts? are you serious? i dont want anyone treating me according to their "gut instincts" instead of "holy protocols"--which are really just the protocols made based on the evidence we have so far. drug reps? i like generic meds personally (they've been around some time, they work, and they're cheap, they dont come attached to a drug rep), u should just ask if there is a generic alternative for u.
look, if u dont trust your doctor, u should find one that u can trust. if u dont trust any doctors (an entire profession), then there's not much left to say.
On the dangerous drugs, you're kidding, right? I have many family members who are given Vicodin, Oxy-this and that, and NO DOCTOR HAS EVER ASKED, "Are you an alcoholic? Do you have an addictive personality?" Nothing. In one case, an 17 year old boy was given a huge RX of Vicodin after an appendectomy . . . totally uncalled for . . .the doctors NEVER follow up about the drugs . . .

I told my GP once that I was having trouble sleeping and came away with a life-time supply of Oxy-something!!!! At the time, I knew nothing about that drug and actually took some . . .I am just mortified that doctors are handing out these prescriptions with no curiosity about addiction potential . . . NONE!!!!

I don't even know the plethora of drugs that doctors prescribe because I am not a drug-taker, but not thanks to my doctors!!!!

On the issue of "gut instinct," which you seem to poo-poo, I would take that ANY DAY over a protocol that is devoid of any intuition, what-so-ever . . .

I am old enough to have had good old-fashioned doctors, in the 1950's who made house calls and prescribed whiskey and honey for that persistent cough . . . my mother was able to call the doctor, describe symptoms and he actually KNEW his patients and would feel confident enough in his instincts to say, "bring her in," or, "let's see how it goes . . ."

It's just gotten to the point of the ridiculous and is doing more harm than good. I do not have stats at my fingertips, but I have read that a good number of deaths are actually caused by doctor errors, as well as hospital mishaps and filthy conditions (staph) . . . it's a really big number . . . I personally feel I am better off avoiding doctors and hospitals at all costs, if I can help it.

I actually have an awesome doctor, but unfortunately, she has 1500 other patients. Yes. 1500!!!
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Washington County, ME
1,554 posts, read 2,513,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious View Post
On the dangerous drugs, you're kidding, right? I have many family members who are given Vicodin, Oxy-this and that, and NO DOCTOR HAS EVER ASKED, "Are you an alcoholic? Do you have an addictive personality?" Nothing. In one case, an 17 year old boy was given a huge RX of Vicodin after an appendectomy . . . totally uncalled for . . .the doctors NEVER follow up about the drugs . . .

I told my GP once that I was having trouble sleeping and came away with a life-time supply of Oxy-something!!!! At the time, I knew nothing about that drug and actually took some . . .I am just mortified that doctors are handing out these prescriptions with no curiosity about addiction potential . . . NONE!!!!
I've had many different doctors - and non has ever refilled ANY prescription of mine for over any length of time without seeing me again. That is against all procedures, as far as i know.

I think you just happened on a bad doctor here and there - they are out there, like in every other profession. Their patients have to NOT let them get away with things either. We are like the "customers." I could come up with many good stories about doctors care, believe me.

Every time i've gotten a pain medicine after a procedure - it's come with NO refills, also. I take Vicoden for my osteoarthritis, and i dont think it would be that uncommon to get it after surgery. I doubt if it would be refilled. It's for severe pain. I was given percoset after my gallbladder surgery, and i needed it. For about 6 days.

No, you should not have been given pain medicine for sleeping. When i need sleeping pills, my doctor only prescribes me 20 at a time, and wants to know WHY i cant sleep. You have to find a good doctor - not a pusher. YES some push drugs and make money that way. But definitely not all of them.

Be a wise consumer... get the best doctor for YOURSELF that you can.
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Old 10-18-2011, 09:56 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
9,973 posts, read 17,888,753 times
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I might add that you can get OTC sleep aids that actually work very well but they're not really any safer than what the doc prescribes. It turns out that any sleep aid that you take long term will have a lot of risk attached and tylenol is not a good drug to take every day. A better thing to do is to get black out curtains for your bedroom.
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,178 posts, read 9,643,129 times
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I have lupus. I worked for a pathologist who diagnosed me. His associates who were dermatologists kept telling me, "I can fix those lesions, you know!" - except that they couldn't, they could graft and suture all they wanted, the lesions would come back. I turned them all down. I've had specialists who insisted that I be put on steroids, which I will not take - partly because they make me violently ill, but mostly because they cause even more long-term damage to the immune system, as well as break down bone marrow and tissue. So yes I have refused steroids as well - the short-term relief isn't worth the long term breakage and decline.

I am fortunate now to have a doc who works with me during my flares, gives me what I need without hesitation, and works with me on lifestyle enhancements to keep me going. She knows how I feel about steroids!
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
25,254 posts, read 30,105,172 times
Reputation: 31427
Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious View Post
On the dangerous drugs, you're kidding, right? I have many family members who are given Vicodin, Oxy-this and that, and NO DOCTOR HAS EVER ASKED, "Are you an alcoholic? Do you have an addictive personality?" Nothing. In one case, an 17 year old boy was given a huge RX of Vicodin after an appendectomy . . . totally uncalled for . . .the doctors NEVER follow up about the drugs . . .


How many pills do you consider "huge"? Most docs give enough narcotic for about a week after surgery with no refills. Most surgeons would want to see a patient who asked for a refill before granting it. The interesting thing is that people who take pain meds after surgery do not develop addiction.

Quote:
I told my GP once that I was having trouble sleeping and came away with a life-time supply of Oxy-something!!!! At the time, I knew nothing about that drug and actually took some . . .I am just mortified that doctors are handing out these prescriptions with no curiosity about addiction potential . . . NONE!!!!


We really need to know the name of this fearsome medication your GP gave you in order to evaluate your comment.

Quote:
I don't even know the plethora of drugs that doctors prescribe because I am not a drug-taker, but not thanks to my doctors!!!!


But you sure have strong opinions about the drugs you do not know.

Quote:
On the issue of "gut instinct," which you seem to poo-poo, I would take that ANY DAY over a protocol that is devoid of any intuition, what-so-ever . . .


A
ctually, doctors sometimes do have "gut instincts", too. Like my Dad's internist who suspected that Dad's indigestion was really the early sign of a heart attack. Saved his life. And the protocols that you "poo poo" are based on what has been shown to work.

Quote:
I am old enough to have had good old-fashioned doctors, in the 1950's who made house calls and prescribed whiskey and honey for that persistent cough . . . my mother was able to call the doctor, describe symptoms and he actually KNEW his patients and would feel confident enough in his instincts to say, "bring her in," or, "let's see how it goes . . ."


Your old-fashioned GP would be astounded at how medicine has changed. The first reaction would be to think of how many patients' lives he could have saved or improved if he had had the drugs and procedures we have today.

Quote:
It's just gotten to the point of the ridiculous and is doing more harm than good. I do not have stats at my fingertips, but I have read that a good number of deaths are actually caused by doctor errors, as well as hospital mishaps and filthy conditions (staph) . . . it's a really big number . . . I personally feel I am better off avoiding doctors and hospitals at all costs, if I can help it.
None of us wishes to get sick and have to see a doctor or go into the hospital. But the risk of a serious error, particularly a fatal one, is overblown. And we all carry staph on our skin. MRSA can be acquired without ever going into a hospital. And hospitals these days are keen on decreasing the risks of infection.

Quote:
I actually have an awesome doctor, but unfortunately, she has 1500 other patients. Yes. 1500!!!


Good for you. But 1500 patients is less than the average for a family practitioner, which is about 2000.
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:17 PM
 
Location: earth?
7,288 posts, read 11,247,642 times
Reputation: 8956
THE LEADING CAUSE 0F DEATH IN THE US IS THE HEALTH-CARE SYSTEM
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
25,254 posts, read 30,105,172 times
Reputation: 31427

More Mercola. Goody!

The article does not give the year for the numbers, but it appears to be about 2001.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr55/nvsr55_19.pdf

Table C. Deaths and percentage of total deaths for the 10 leading causes of death: United States, 2001

All causes ............................................2,416, 425

Diseases of heart ......................... ...........700,142

Malignant neoplasms ................................553,768

Cerebrovascular diseases ..........................163,538

Chronic lower respiratory diseases ..............123,013

Accidents (unintentional injuries) .................101,537

Diabetes mellitus .........................................71,372

Influenza and pneumonia ..............................62,034


Alzheimer’s disease......................................53,85 2

Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis ..39,480


Septicemia .................................................. .32,238


Total for the top 10.....................................1,900,974
All other deaths ........................................ 515,451
Homicides, subtract.......................................30, 622
and we are down to.....................................484,829
Suicides, subtract.......................................... 20,308
and we are down to ....................................464,521
Infant deaths, subtract....................................27,568
and we are down to.....................................436,953 for all other causes.

Mercola says medicine causes 783,936 deaths in 2001. Who are these dead people? That number is greater than the 436,953 deaths from all other causes after the top ten plus infant deaths, homicides and suicides. There is no way Mercola's numbers can be accurate. There are just not enough dead folks to account for the carnage he is describing.

More Mercola lies.
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:46 AM
 
Location: Ohio
3,441 posts, read 5,351,677 times
Reputation: 2678
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasfirewheel View Post
I'm more honest with my GP about my feelings regarding mammograms. He always counsels me on the need for them and I always tell him why I choose not to get them.

You want to wait until the tumor is large enough to feel on the outside then you can make your funeral plans.
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