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You did say in the Op that you were going to request a refund..that's what I was referring to. Do I need to quote it for you?
In answer to your original question. I've never had this experience. The majority of advanced practice nurses I know personally & have worked with for years (yep, I'm an RN but not an NP) are superior in their diagnostic skills over most MD's, at least here in california. Not sure where you are from. And no, I do not believe your experience is the trend.
I'm sorry that one bad experience has caused you so much distress.... perhaps it is time to let it go. Forgiveness is key, unless you want to hang on to bitterness, resentment & unforgiveness....in that case, I really feel sorry for you! carry on with the pity party!!
Last edited by SouthernBelleInUtah; 01-12-2013 at 09:21 AM..
In answer to your original question. I've never had this experience. The majority of advanced practice nurses I know personally & have worked with for years (yep, I'm an RN but not an NP) are superior in their diagnostic skills over most MD's, at least here in california. Not sure where you are from. And no, I do not believe your experience is the trend.
I'm sorry that one bad experience has caused you so much distress.... perhaps it is time to let it go. Forgiveness is key, unless you want to hang on to bitterness, resentment & unforgiveness....in that case, I really feel sorry for you! carry on with the pity party!![/quote]
Since you've never had this experience as an RN yourself, or seen it happen with your colleagues, I don't expect you to understand (which you clearly don't from your posts in this thread, the way you admonish me for being mad that this happened). After all, I clearly posted in my title that this was a "rant" post. Do I have to quote myself again?!
I posted about my experience to open up a discussion thread about this sort of thing happening to people, because it does happen, whether or not you agree. If you take this personally that's your issue. Clearly.
Last edited by SouthernBelleInUtah; 01-12-2013 at 09:23 AM..
jtur88, what would you call this nurse's inability to properly examine, test and diagnose my UTI then? She was negligent, plain and simple
I'd call it negligence by the nurse, not laziness by the doctor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest Maven
Are doctors so lazy as to let their nursing staff hand out medication without giving the patient a reason?
As I pointed out in my post, doctors are to be faulted not for laziness, but plain and simple incompetence. Doctors, often, have no experience at treating real patients and their symptoms. They treat charts with lab test numbers on them. Of the last 5 doctors appointments I've had, I was only seen by the doctor twice. The rest of the time by a PA. But the PAs were more competent than the doctors because they SAW patients. I often phone my doctor's office to report that I responded to treatment. Do you think many of them care? I bet they don't even get the message. I had one doctor once who actually asked me to.
We ought to have something like a medical Peace Corps, where every doctor spends two years in the bush, treating patients 500 miles from the nearest MRI and analyzing urine specimens with their tongue the way farmers test soil for pH, and keep a squadron of leeches in the jar, and getting feedback from the patients. We should admit 100,000 doctors from whatever country they come from, give them two years to learn English and put them to work treating the 40-million people who have, until now, been locked out of the health care suites.
This is not a whack at all doctors, there are a lot of good ones. The last thing I would accuse doctors of is laziness, but tht doesn;'t mean I think they are all good doctor's. Just because you can get admitted to medical school, though, doesn't make you a good doctor, but nobody flunks out after they get admitted. Admission to med school is a winning lottery ticket. Don't get me started on doctors who are in it just for the money. The ones whose only goal was to be called Doctor and join a specialty in which they see patients two mornings a week and go to conferences in Geneva every year.
I'd call it negligence by the nurse, not laziness by the doctor.
As I pointed out in my post, doctors are to be faulted not for laziness, but plain and simple incompetence. Doctors, often, have no experience at treating real patients and their symptoms. They treat charts with lab test numbers on them. Of the last 5 doctors appointments I've had, I was only seen by the doctor twice. The rest of the time by a PA. But the PAs were more competent than the doctors because they SAW patients. I often phone my doctor's office to report that I responded to treatment. Do you think many of them care? I bet they don't even get the message. I had one doctor once who actually asked me to.
We ought to have something like a medical Peace Corps, where every doctor spends two years in the bush, treating patients 500 miles from the nearest MRI and analyzing urine specimens with their tongue the way farmers test soil for pH, and keep a squadron of leeches in the jar, and getting feedback from the patients. We should admit 100,000 doctors from whatever country they come from, give them two years to learn English and put them to work treating the 40-million people who have, until now, been locked out of the health care suites.
This is not a whack at all doctors, there are a lot of good ones. The last thing I would accuse doctors of is laziness, but tht doesn;'t mean I think they are all good doctor's. Just because you can get admitted to medical school, though, doesn't make you a good doctor, but nobody flunks out after they get admitted. Admission to med school is a winning lottery ticket. Don't get me started on doctors who are in it just for the money. The ones whose only goal was to be called Doctor and join a specialty in which they see patients two mornings a week and go to conferences in Geneva every year.
Ah, I see you point now. My comment that doctors are lazy doesn't really apply to the incompetence factor of some PA nurses and even some doctors.
I do agree with you also that some doctors lack the ability to make a real diagnosis as they rely too heavily on charts and lab test results, to think outside the box enough to disagree with lab test results and push further on with more tests until the correct diagnosis is reached.
And yes, I agree that there are also doctors in the profession just for the amount of money and there are also a lot of good doctors too.
This is why you see your Doctor w/ a scheduled visit, even if you have to wait a day. I have had wonderful Nurse's....in many cases I'd have to say even better imo than a distracted, too busy Doctor. But, if you feel strongly that she did something negligent you should complain and let a Board of her peers decide.
Last edited by JanND; 01-12-2013 at 01:58 PM..
Reason: edit text
In answer to your original question. I've never had this experience. The majority of advanced practice nurses I know personally & have worked with for years (yep, I'm an RN but not an NP) are superior in their diagnostic skills over most MD's, at least here in california.
Really? Then why do I see NP's asking there supervising MD's questions all the time? This is the most ridiculous statement I've ever head, esp considering that you are an RN. The NP's ask what certain test results mean a lot. Differential diagnosis is much smaller, they didn't even know what blastomycosis was, but the MD knew right away and knew the treatment.
Also in the ER I work at, the NP's see the much lower acuity patients, the real sick ones see the MD's.
Really? Then why do I see NP's asking there supervising MD's questions all the time? This is the most ridiculous statement I've ever head, esp considering that you are an RN. The NP's ask what certain test results mean a lot. Differential diagnosis is much smaller, they didn't even know what blastomycosis was, but the MD knew right away and knew the treatment.
Also in the ER I work at, the NP's see the much lower acuity patients, the real sick ones see the MD's.
You sound like a nurse I could trust. I am glad there are nurses out there like you because positive interactions with those kinds of nurses (who take the time to ask their supervising MD's questions before they prescribe or diagnose a patient) would be the only way I would let my guard down to trust a nurse. I admit that I should be more open minded, as not every nurse practitioner is as negligent as the one I saw this past week.
This is why you see your Doctor w/ a scheduled visit, even if you have to wait a day. I have had wonderful Nurse's....in many cases I'd have to say even better imo than a distracted, too busy Doctor. But, if you feel strongly that she did something negligent you should complain and let a Board of her peers decide.
Thanks JanND. I did file a complaint and had the opportunity to speak with her supervising doctor during my appointment. Hopefully she'll just be reminded that she needs to consult with him before she prescribes medicine to patients without first testing or diagnosing them. But yeah, I'll see the doctor first next time even if I have to wait. I'm glad to hear that you've had positive experiences with nurses. I was wrong to throw the whole nursing profession under the bus with this rant thread as there are good nurses out there.
In the past couple of years, I have gone to the emergency department twice, and on both occasions, I was subjected to a very expensive text procedure before I was seen by a doctor or even a physician's assistant. One was a CAT scan, and the other an Ultrasound. I questioned both. The CAT scan was unnecessary, because my head cut (30 stitches) was a glancing wound by a sharp object, not an impact, and I felt no head pain. The ultrasound was done, even though I explained that the symptoms were most likely a recurrence of a prior chronic condition and I would probably only need and antibiotic. The nurse said afterwards that it was a good thing they did the ultrasound, the doctor was going to want to see that, and then it turned out to be negative, and that I had correctly self-diagnosed. The PA referred me to a specialist outside the OR, after giving me what the specialist called "the wrong antibiotic, but it will probably work". In neither case was I seen by a doctor in ER (both times by a PA).
I found it rather disconcerting that I was assigned by triage to inutile diagnostic procedures billled at thousands of dollars, after I had explained the circumstances of the incidents and the improbability that the tests would be of any value or interest to a real doctor. It is simply the flow-chart mentality, flying beneath the radar of knowledgeable judgment, which pretty much has a stranglehold on everyday American life.
It's not laziness. There are 51 countries in the world that have more doctors per capita than the US, and this country is going to experience a mind-boggling crisis of doctor shortage if/when medical care is expanded to include everyone.
You had better start getting used to people below the level of doctor making all kinds of health-care decisions. Half the doctors in the world would come to America in a minute, if we would let them come in and practice medicine -- many of them are very likely better doctors than the American ones, who have no ability at all to diagnose, except to read test results, determine that they are outside normal parameters, and write the Rx for it that has been sold to him by Big Pharma's salesmen..
Where can I find one of these "lazy doctors" whose nurse will renew my ongoing Rx without charging me for the copay for the office call and the tests that he will prescribe which will continue to show the same results as I have had for the past 20 years?
I think you're wrong about many Drs in the world wanting to come and work in the USA.
The way healthcare here works (or not!) and the way Drs practice medicine (or not!) goes so much against the ethics and practice standards of Drs, certainly in the UK , and I imagine in many other parts of Europe.
I do agree that many of them would be better Doctors when it comes to examining,taking a full history (both current and past) and making accurate provisional diagnoses before doing any bloods/scans etc etc.
Also not giving treatmants that have very little proven positive effect and sometimes are just as likely to cause a negative effect.
Our NPs work in exactly the same way as the Drs because usually they're at least part trained by them.
I don't understand an NP nor knowing whatt investigations to order to help make a diagnosis. But maybe that's becasue they have no idea what they might be dealing with as they don't take a full history or do a focused clinical examination.
PS- From what I've seen in the USA, nurses in the UK are better and many of those would like to come here for the better quality of life, pay and working conditions, but the US makes them wait 7-8 years , even after they have a job offer and been approved for a green card! More are now going to Canada and Australia.
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