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Old 06-07-2018, 05:08 PM
 
5,985 posts, read 7,104,788 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Don't worry, there is vax coming for you and Lyme disease. Yes, I have known a woman with Lyme Disease. Terrified? I now live in a rural area of Pa. with a very high deer, and tick, population. You cannot FEEL when a tick is crawling on you? What are you NUMB? Hello, Mr. Tick. SWAT you are dead. This includes sitting INSIDE my own home, and for mosquitoes as well.

What is wrong with you people? You cannot feel insects crawling on you? Must be over-medicated to the point of being insensitive.
No. You can not feel a tick when it is crawling on you. Their bites are painless. Here is a picture of a nymph tick. This is how small they are. If you had one of these on your scalp (a favorite place for them since they can attach and climb up your hair, which you can't feel), you would never know it. This nymph tick can and does transmit Lyme and other diseases.
Attached Thumbnails
Is America overmedicated?-tick.jpg  
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Old 06-07-2018, 05:17 PM
 
5,985 posts, read 7,104,788 times
Reputation: 10160
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
The CDC link again:

https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/postlds/index.html

"Studies funded by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) have not shown that people who received prolonged courses of antibiotics do better in the long run than people treated with placebo. Furthermore, long-term antibiotic or alternative treatments for Lyme disease have been associated with serious complications."

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-c...tment-research

"These studies did reinforce the evidence that patients reporting PTLDS symptoms have a severe impairment in overall physical health and quality of life. However, prolonged antibiotic therapy showed no benefit when compared with groups who received placebo."

Port infections are not important? They are a complication of long-term term IV antibiotic use. The link also gives further links to other complications, including C. difficile infection and biliary problems.

You said MS is "linked to" Lyme disease. That implies causation.

Difficulty in diagnosis is a separate issue. False positive tests for Lyme may be due to cross reactions with other infections, or they may be due to problems with the testing method used.

See "Additional comments on specificity" here:

https://www.aldf.com/pdf/LD_Sero_Rev...si_article.pdf

"Additionally, the use of only the 'second tier' Western blot also can lead to false positives since this test is qualitative, not quantitative; faint cross-reactive bands can easily (and erroneously) be interpreted as positive."

More here.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4627869/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4627878/
First, I did not say that MS is linked to Lyme disease. I said that MS is a common misdiagnoses when people actually have Lyme. Also, you do realize that the people who have decided on the treatment guidelines have huge conflicts of interest, right? An investigation of the ISDA (the division of the CDC that set the guidelines for Lyme treatment) by the Connecticut Attorney General discovered that of the 14 panel authors of the guidelines: 6 of them or their universities held patents on Lyme or its co-infections, 4 received funding from Lyme or co-infection test kit manufacturers, 4 were paid by insurance companies to write Lyme policy guidelines or consult in Lyme legal cases, and 9 received money from Lyme disease vaccine manufacturers. Some of the authors were involved in more than one conflict of interest. Guess which state now mandates that insurance companies cover long-term antibiotics for the treatment of Lyme? Oh, and guess who authored the studies you cited?

Also, why is the CDC only concerned about port infections when the disease treated is Lyme disease? What other bacterial infections have they made the same argument about? And I agree that C. difficile infection and biliary problems are a concern any time antibiotics are prescribed. So why hasn't the CDC come out against the long-term use of the SAME EXACT ANTIBIOTICS for acne? Certainly if the risks of these complications are so great, they would be more concerned about even longer use for a cosmetic condition, usually prescribed to children.
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
25,388 posts, read 30,166,867 times
Reputation: 31569
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnivalGal View Post
First, I did not say that MS is linked to Lyme disease.

I said that MS is a common misdiagnoses when people actually have Lyme.
Quote:
My initial response was in response to your post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnivalGal View Post
All of the diseases mentioned, fibromyalgia, MS, RA, etc. have also all been linked to Lyme disease. I personally think that a HUGE percentage of the population has been impacted by Lyme and just doesn't know it. And because there is no accurate test, there is no way to find out if it's something you're struggling with.
To me, linked means a cause and effect relationship. Thank you for clarifying that when you said linked you meant that the diagnoses are difficult to make, and they are.

Quote:
Also, you do realize that the people who have decided on the treatment guidelines have huge conflicts of interest, right? An investigation of the ISDA (the division of the CDC that set the guidelines for Lyme treatment) by the Connecticut Attorney General discovered that of the 14 panel authors of the guidelines: 6 of them or their universities held patents on Lyme or its co-infections, 4 received funding from Lyme or co-infection test kit manufacturers, 4 were paid by insurance companies to write Lyme policy guidelines or consult in Lyme legal cases, and 9 received money from Lyme disease vaccine manufacturers. Some of the authors were involved in more than one conflict of interest. Guess which state now mandates that insurance companies cover long-term antibiotics for the treatment of Lyme? Oh, and guess who authored the studies you cited?
Sorry, I am not buying the pharma conspiracy idea. No one is out to keep people from being diagnosed and treated for Lyme disease.

If you had a problem with your car, who would you want to try to fix it, an automobile mechanic or your CPA? Why do you think that experts on Lyme disease should not be involved in issues related to Lyme disease?

Unless they are physicians, politicians probably should not be mandating medical treatment.

Quote:
Also, why is the CDC only concerned about port infections when the disease treated is Lyme disease? What other bacterial infections have they made the same argument about? And I agree that C. difficile infection and biliary problems are a concern any time antibiotics are prescribed. So why hasn't the CDC come out against the long-term use of the SAME EXACT ANTIBIOTICS for acne? Certainly if the risks of these complications are so great, they would be more concerned about even longer use for a cosmetic condition, usually prescribed to children.
The antibiotic is not given IV for acne. It also helps acne, and there is no proven benefit to giving antibiotics for persistent symptoms after treatment for a Lyme infection. You know, if it worked, the CDC would recommend it.
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Old 06-08-2018, 10:06 AM
 
Location: too far from the sea
21,479 posts, read 20,478,697 times
Reputation: 37675
This is a controversial topic but you need to stop bickering back and forth and focusing on specifics. Just debate it in general, be polite, or it will be closed.
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my posts as moderator will be in red. Moderator: Health&Wellness~Genealogy. The Rules--read here>>> TOS. If someone attacks you, do not reply. Hit REPORT.
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Old 06-09-2018, 10:59 AM
 
5,985 posts, read 7,104,788 times
Reputation: 10160
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Sorry, I am not buying the pharma conspiracy idea. No one is out to keep people from being diagnosed and treated for Lyme disease.

If you had a problem with your car, who would you want to try to fix it, an automobile mechanic or your CPA? Why do you think that experts on Lyme disease should not be involved in issues related to Lyme disease?

Unless they are physicians, politicians probably should not be mandating medical treatment.



The antibiotic is not given IV for acne. It also helps acne, and there is no proven benefit to giving antibiotics for persistent symptoms after treatment for a Lyme infection. You know, if it worked, the CDC would recommend it.
Rather than go back and forth with you, here is a link to over 700 peer reviewed articles (not written by members of ISDA who are receiving money from insurance companies, vaccine manufacturers, or test kit manufacturers) that suggest otherwise. This should keep you busy for a while.

http://www.ilads.org/ilads_news/wp-c...List-ILADS.pdf
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:32 AM
 
10,809 posts, read 7,098,677 times
Reputation: 20617
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLS View Post
Tell your friends status post stroke to stop taking their antihypertensives.
Tell your friends with diabetes to cease taking their oral hypoglycemics.
Tell your friends with a genetic predisposition for hypercholesterolemia to stop taking their lipid lowering agents, and...........

You will have fewer friends.
As a pharmacist, I couldn't have said it better.
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Old 06-09-2018, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
25,388 posts, read 30,166,867 times
Reputation: 31569
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnivalGal View Post
Rather than go back and forth with you, here is a link to over 700 peer reviewed articles (not written by members of ISDA who are receiving money from insurance companies, vaccine manufacturers, or test kit manufacturers) that suggest otherwise. This should keep you busy for a while.

http://www.ilads.org/ilads_news/wp-c...List-ILADS.pdf
I am underwhelmed. Most in the list are twenty years old - or more.

Do you have one that shows that more people get better if treated with an antibiotic than those who are given placebos?

By the way, your list is a version of the Gish gallop, which is a very ineffective debate tactic.

No matter how many articles you list, and the skeptic in me finds it hard to believe you have read them all yourself, the fact remains that people treated with prolonged courses of antibiotics for persistent symptoms after Lyme infection are no more likely to get better than people who do not get antibiotics. In the absence of demonstrable benefit from antibiotics, the risks of taking them outweigh the benefit.
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Old 06-09-2018, 04:13 PM
 
4,823 posts, read 3,238,193 times
Reputation: 9795
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
the fact remains that people treated with prolonged courses of antibiotics for persistent symptoms after Lyme infection are no more likely to get better than people who do not get antibiotics. In the absence of demonstrable benefit from antibiotics, the risks of taking them outweigh the benefit.
So, you're agreeing with the main question of the thread, that in this particular case, Americans are overmedicated if doctors are prescribing prolonged courses of antibiotics.

It isn't all black and white, that's for sure.
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Old 06-09-2018, 04:59 PM
 
4,311 posts, read 1,439,871 times
Reputation: 3442
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraG View Post
So, you're agreeing with the main question of the thread, that in this particular case, Americans are overmedicated if doctors are prescribing prolonged courses of antibiotics.

It isn't all black and white, that's for sure.
Also, doctors have no better ideas for treating Lyme disease. I'm sure SuzyQ would whole-heartedly approve the use of chemo for cancer even though most of the time it has not benefit at all. But since they have no better ideas, she would be all for it. And it helps the drug companies tremendously, so she would like that.

But long-term antibiotics for Lyme, for some reason, has not been accepted by mainstream medicine.

I personally decided to stop the antibiotics because I think they are too damaging to the immune system, and everything else. You can just try to have a healthy lifestyle and hope the body can fight the bacteria. Or you could pay a naturopath hundreds of thousands of dollars for supplements that don't do anything.
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Old 06-09-2018, 05:13 PM
 
7,164 posts, read 3,984,708 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
In all fairness, sometimes a tick can crawl onto your skin and attach itself without your being aware of it. And I don't think it's due to being zombified by "overmedication". I recall when we were kids, and visited relatives who lived in tick or chigger prone areas, my mother used to strip each of us down every night and check for both ticks and chiggers. We might have felt it in the event one of the little buggers crawled on us, but the nightly check made sure none of them stayed attached for any great length of time, or if it happened, she'd be aware of it and get rid of the thing.

One can also use insect repellent.
I now live in Pa. which is high among states for ticks. We were sitting outside today at picnic table eating our lunch from a food truck. I was wearing jeans, socks, and athletic shoes. I could feel something biting my legs through layers of clothing. Looked down and it was a big fly. I moved to another table.

Yeah, my husband said BUT you are wearing jeans. I am not supposed to feel it? Says WHO? Did it bite my husband sitting next to me? Maybe it did but he didn't feel it in his jeans.
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