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Old 06-03-2018, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
25,190 posts, read 30,059,309 times
Reputation: 31321

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
Life expectancy did NOT increase because of the new drugs! That is such a myth, meant to sell more drugs.

For example: life expectancy for white women, at age 65, increased by 3 years since 1960. That could be accounted for by decreased cigarette smoking.

Antibiotics and vaccines may have contributed to lower child mortality, which dramatically increased life expectancy in the mid 20th century.

SuzyQ said "Average life expectancy in the US has increased due to better medical care, including medicines. No, it is not due to lower infant mortality."

And that is simply a lie! And I'm sure she knows it's a lie. What "medicines" exactly is she talking about? Statin drugs? Even most MDs will admit they contributed nothing, or almost nothing to longer average life.
How does infant mortality affect life expectancy for someone who has already reached age 65? That is why the expectancy figures are adjusted for age.

Two of the big drivers in increased life expectancy in the US in the last few decades are decreases in the incidence and better treatment of cardiovascular disease and better prevention, diagnosis, and treatment of cancer. Yes, lower smoking rates are a factor in both of those, but not the entire story.

http://circres.ahajournals.org/conte...2/366.full.pdf

"Since 1978, a sharp decline in mortality rates from coronary heart disease and stroke has become unmistakable throughout the industrialized world, with age-adjusted mortality rates having declined to about one third of their 1960s baseline by 2000. Models have shown that this remarkable decline has been fueled by rapid progress in both prevention and treatment, including precipitous declines in cigarette smoking, improvements in hypertension treatment and control, widespread use of statins to lower circulating cholesterol levels, and the development and timely use of thrombolysis and stents in acute coronary syndrome to limit or prevent infarction."

Improved prevention and treatment of cancer is another factor.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5477919/

"Overall, in 52 populations with long term vital registration systems, declines in cancer mortality rates between 1981 and 2010 have independently contributed to an improvement in longevity and the magnitude of the improvement over time due to decline in cancer mortality rates is inextricably linked with a population’s level of development (Human Development Index (HDI))."

That means that prevention and treatment of cancer has led to an increase in life expectancy, more so in economically advantaged countries.

The "lie" is that increased life expectancy for someone who lives to be 65 is due to decreased infant mortality. It is not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4513492/

"Traditional efforts to prevent cardiovascular disease have emphasized the benefits of cholesterol lowering and statin drugs. Often overlooked is the fact that numerous studies of cholesterol lowering have failed to demonstrate a mortality benefit"
There are two categories of people who take statins: those with known coronary heart disease and those without. For those with a previous heart attack, use of a statin is unequivocally associated with improved survival. For those with no known history of cardiovascular disease but risk factors to develop it, there is also evidence for improved survival.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...orkReader=True

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28249380

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
U.S. Life Expectancy Drops As Death Rate Continues To Grow | Tech Times

It is a fact, Suzy, why are you in denial? Americans live an unhealthy lifestyle today; from diet, to exercise, to over medicatio,n and the all the ills that causes. 70% of Seniors are on at least 5 medications daily. "Ask your doctor if this Pill is RIGHT FOR YOU". I know you do not like personal stories but my husband was just in the hospital for one medication interacting with another and causing kidney failure.

The hospital said to him WHY are you taking this when you are taking bla, bla? Well, when you take 17 medications daily and have 4 different doctors. this cannot happen, Suzy?????

This is not counting the Opioid Crisis we are now experiencing. Medicine is not at fault for any of this? Medicine is now our GOD! Damn, Suzy, I cannot remember the last time I took a TYLENOL, let alone pages of medications. Pure LUCK, right?

Stop pushing all the PILLS. How in today's society can anyone manage to reach the age of 65 without medications keeping them alive???? This is our problem today. Medicine and Pharms are getting rich on it.
Your husband needs a primary care doctor who will monitor all of his medications and he needs to get all of his meds from one drug store, which will allow any adverse drug interactions to be picked up more easily. He needs to review those meds with his doctor at every visit to see whether any can be stopped. That is standard of care.

As you have been told repeatedly, anecdotes are not data. Just because you personally do not need medications does not mean no one does. Every drug someone takes should have an indication and the benefits and risks for each one need to be understood.

I mentioned the drop in life expectancy. None of the increase in your link is attributed to medications, other than the contribution from opioid abuse. If so, I cannot find it. Perhaps you could quote it for me.

Perhaps you can explain to us how to get Americans to give up their unhealthy lifestyles. For those who will not, should we deny them medications?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
Just a side note and I agree with so much here..Listening to my favorite MD on radio about Stem Cells etc (Regenerative MEdicine) and so many calls for his help. One person talked about how his mother got stem cells in Mexico for her advanced cancer and she's doing good. Then he went on to ask the MD why is the U.S. so behind in all this type of work and MD said pharma has a heavy heavy heavy influence on MD's and surgery and drug kingdom.

Then the caller said about Traditional Medicine = Tunnel Vision.

Actually it's more like visions of $$$$ dance in their heads.

Yes, I do take a couple pharma meds.
You know the person whose "mother got stem cells in Mexico for her advanced cancer and she's doing good"? You have seen her pathology reports? You know for sure she even exists?

Doctors will be happy to prescribe stem cells when there is actual evidence they will do some good.

How do you decide only the meds you choose to take are good and meds others choose to take are not?
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Old 06-03-2018, 10:18 PM
Status: "Keep It SIMPLE!!" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Southern California
26,239 posts, read 9,862,011 times
Reputation: 16969
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
How does infant mortality affect life expectancy for someone who has already reached age 65? That is why the expectancy figures are adjusted for age.

Two of the big drivers in increased life expectancy in the US in the last few decades are decreases in the incidence and better treatment of cardiovascular disease and better prevention, diagnosis, and treatment of cancer. Yes, lower smoking rates are a factor in both of those, but not the entire story.

http://circres.ahajournals.org/conte...2/366.full.pdf

"Since 1978, a sharp decline in mortality rates from coronary heart disease and stroke has become unmistakable throughout the industrialized world, with age-adjusted mortality rates having declined to about one third of their 1960s baseline by 2000. Models have shown that this remarkable decline has been fueled by rapid progress in both prevention and treatment, including precipitous declines in cigarette smoking, improvements in hypertension treatment and control, widespread use of statins to lower circulating cholesterol levels, and the development and timely use of thrombolysis and stents in acute coronary syndrome to limit or prevent infarction."

Improved prevention and treatment of cancer is another factor.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5477919/

"Overall, in 52 populations with long term vital registration systems, declines in cancer mortality rates between 1981 and 2010 have independently contributed to an improvement in longevity and the magnitude of the improvement over time due to decline in cancer mortality rates is inextricably linked with a population’s level of development (Human Development Index (HDI))."

That means that prevention and treatment of cancer has led to an increase in life expectancy, more so in economically advantaged countries.

The "lie" is that increased life expectancy for someone who lives to be 65 is due to decreased infant mortality. It is not.



There are two categories of people who take statins: those with known coronary heart disease and those without. For those with a previous heart attack, use of a statin is unequivocally associated with improved survival. For those with no known history of cardiovascular disease but risk factors to develop it, there is also evidence for improved survival.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...orkReader=True

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28249380



Your husband needs a primary care doctor who will monitor all of his medications and he needs to get all of his meds from one drug store, which will allow any adverse drug interactions to be picked up more easily. He needs to review those meds with his doctor at every visit to see whether any can be stopped. That is standard of care.

As you have been told repeatedly, anecdotes are not data. Just because you personally do not need medications does not mean no one does. Every drug someone takes should have an indication and the benefits and risks for each one need to be understood.

I mentioned the drop in life expectancy. None of the increase in your link is attributed to medications, other than the contribution from opioid abuse. If so, I cannot find it. Perhaps you could quote it for me.

Perhaps you can explain to us how to get Americans to give up their unhealthy lifestyles. For those who will not, should we deny them medications?



You know the person whose "mother got stem cells in Mexico for her advanced cancer and she's doing good"? You have seen her pathology reports? You know for sure she even exists?

Doctors will be happy to prescribe stem cells when there is actual evidence they will do some good.

How do you decide only the meds you choose to take are good and meds others choose to take are not?
Pharma in U.S. makes more money from drugs vs our own stem cells. The Mexican doctors and doctors in other parts of the world must know something...NO????? Keep trying this and that drug and maybe it will give a person a little longer and could be it won't. What do they say, if the cancer doesn't kill one, the drug will...heard this one a long long time ago. Yes, I know there are exceptions..but I know personally a few who didn't make it.
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Old 06-03-2018, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Middle of the ocean
34,986 posts, read 22,044,864 times
Reputation: 50365
Everyone thinks the US is over medicated, unless THEY need the medicine.

Do I think the US is over medicated? Yes, but due to the fact the US has trouble with obesity and lack of exercise, and the demand of the patients of a pill to fix what ails them as opposed to diet/exercise, quit smoking and other personal lifestyle choices.

No one is forcing the American consumer to take medication.

(I don't mean things where lifestyle changes have nothing to do with the ailment.)
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Old 06-03-2018, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
25,190 posts, read 30,059,309 times
Reputation: 31321
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
Pharma in U.S. makes more money from drugs vs our own stem cells. The Mexican doctors and doctors in other parts of the world must know something...NO????? Keep trying this and that drug and maybe it will give a person a little longer and could be it won't. What do they say, if the cancer doesn't kill one, the drug will...heard this one a long long time ago. Yes, I know there are exceptions..but I know personally a few who didn't make it.
Once again, your personal anecdotes are worthless in the total scheme of things. What you feel are "exceptions" are, for many cancers, the rule.

Research in Mexico is not regulated the way it is in the US. The stem cell places can do pretty much what they want to do without showing it helps.

By the way, those Mexican places charge megabucks for stem cell treatments. Note I am in no way suggesting anyone go to this place, just noting the cost:

Stem Cell Therapy Cost in Mexico | GIOSTAR Mexico

" ... this is why the overall therapy may start at $10,000 US dlls to $27,000 US dlls."
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Old 06-04-2018, 05:03 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
74,895 posts, read 87,306,410 times
Reputation: 45460
suzi, most of us are not saying all meds are over prescribed or we should take more, but wouldn't you agree, some of us do pop to many. This is partly due to the medical field prescribing them and us begging for more. Sure some have added years to our lives but more than that we are living longer because of medical tech, less smoking, not so many fats. OK,we still eat way to many, but not like our grandparents did living on the farms and safer and better surgery. I still have to feel there are those who do take way to many drugs.
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Old 06-04-2018, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
25,190 posts, read 30,059,309 times
Reputation: 31321
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
suzi, most of us are not saying all meds are over prescribed or we should take more, but wouldn't you agree, some of us do pop to many. This is partly due to the medical field prescribing them and us begging for more. Sure some have added years to our lives but more than that we are living longer because of medical tech, less smoking, not so many fats. OK,we still eat way to many, but not like our grandparents did living on the farms and safer and better surgery. I still have to feel there are those who do take way to many drugs.
My maternal grandfather died at the age of 43 from a heart attack. He ran a dairy and was chasing a cow when he started having symptoms. It happened despite his active lifestyle and country diet and the fact that he was thin. Two of my cousins who are also his grandchildren have had coronary heart disease. One had a stent placed in an artery and did not survive. He was home alone when it happened and apparently was unable to call for help. He was 51, thin, and a vegetarian. The other survived because his wife is a nurse and insisted he go to the ER.

Both of my parents and my maternal grandmother had coronary artery disease. My maternal great grandmother, maternal grandmother, and mother all had strokes.

I choose to take a statin.

Obviously there are people who should eat better and exercise more. What I resent is the meme that doctors offer drugs rather than telling them to eat better and exercise more, when doctors do tell patients to eat better, offer nutrition counseling, and the only exercise needed is to get up and walk for 30 minutes a day.

As far as I am concerned, the only ones who have the right to judge whether a drug is necessary are the person taking it and the doctor prescribing it. How many are too many?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
The only meds i take are ones prescribed by doctors, they include 2 for high blood pressure,1 for high cholesterol 1 diuretics and 2 insulins, should i stop taking these and go on supplements suggested by forum members?
I will be interested in seeing the response to this one, jambo.
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Old 06-04-2018, 07:36 AM
 
4,773 posts, read 3,213,137 times
Reputation: 9702
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post

As you have been told repeatedly, ...
Can you please tell us your medical and educational background, including all certifications?

You have said this to so many on C-D, as if you are the supreme authority on all medical issues.

I thought you said previously you just enjoyed googling research, which is fine, but please don't shut down discussions and other posters. Not everyone is in the 60% positive group in your research articles, many of us are in the 40% where something didn't work or had harmful side effects. I think those personal stories are just as important, if not more so, and add to the discussion.

Can you imagine going to your doctor and telling him that you had a bad reaction to a medicine and she says, "as you've been told repeatedly, your personal story doesn't matter, look at all this research showing that medicine works..."
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Old 06-04-2018, 10:29 AM
Status: "Keep It SIMPLE!!" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Southern California
26,239 posts, read 9,862,011 times
Reputation: 16969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
Everyone thinks the US is over medicated, unless THEY need the medicine.

Do I think the US is over medicated? Yes, but due to the fact the US has trouble with obesity and lack of exercise, and the demand of the patients of a pill to fix what ails them as opposed to diet/exercise, quit smoking and other personal lifestyle choices.

No one is forcing the American consumer to take medication.

(I don't mean things where lifestyle changes have nothing to do with the ailment.)
For me and the NEED for the BP meds and thyroid is that I could have worked harder with diet for starters on the BP and learned back then what I know now about BP and for the thyroid there are many many companies that produce thyroid supplements and iodine is a major ingredient for the thyroid health. I didn't know that back in the 90's when I was struggling. I deal with advanced OA and choose not to take any of the strong drugs like Celebrex that all come with side effects...the issues are bad enough and then dealing with the side effects of the drugs.

But since I'm deep enough into the meds, I'm not going to work to eliminate them and start over at almost 80.
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Old 06-04-2018, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Middle of the ocean
34,986 posts, read 22,044,864 times
Reputation: 50365
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
For me and the NEED for the BP meds and thyroid is that I could have worked harder with diet for starters on the BP and learned back then what I know now about BP and for the thyroid there are many many companies that produce thyroid supplements and iodine is a major ingredient for the thyroid health. I didn't know that back in the 90's when I was struggling. I deal with advanced OA and choose not to take any of the strong drugs like Celebrex that all come with side effects...the issues are bad enough and then dealing with the side effects of the drugs.

But since I'm deep enough into the meds, I'm not going to work to eliminate them and start over at almost 80.

And that's my point.

You have your reasons for taking meds, and other people have their reason for taking meds.


So it would be hypocritical to then go and tell everyone else they shouldn't be taking their meds, or complaining that the US population is over medicated.
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Old 06-04-2018, 10:40 AM
Status: "Keep It SIMPLE!!" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Southern California
26,239 posts, read 9,862,011 times
Reputation: 16969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
And that's my point.

You have your reasons for taking meds, and other people have their reason for taking meds.


So it would be hypocritical to then go and tell everyone else they shouldn't be taking their meds, or complaining that the US population is over medicated.

And some here just think pharma meds are all the answers...and they are NOT. I'm not telling anyone not to take their statins.....some of these folks have closed tight minds to all other protocols for healing.

And there are plenty who feel Americans are overmedicated. 244,000 deaths or more annually from drug interactions!!!!
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