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Old 05-08-2017, 04:15 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
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Since Lyme disease is a bacterial infection it is possible that we simply do not have antibiotics available that can reliably fight this infection after it is well established? There is one new antibiotic that could hit the market in the next five years if the testing shows no adverse side affects: First new antibiotic in 30 years discovered in major breakthrough. But I do not know if that will work on Lyme? It also does not do you any good right now.
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Old 07-15-2017, 07:54 AM
 
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Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
Since Lyme disease is a bacterial infection it is possible that we simply do not have antibiotics available that can reliably fight this infection after it is well established? There is one new antibiotic that could hit the market in the next five years if the testing shows no adverse side affects: First new antibiotic in 30 years discovered in major breakthrough. But I do not know if that will work on Lyme? It also does not do you any good right now.
Recent news articles report a promising non-antibiotic drug under development. Obviously, there's a lot more development work that has to take place, and it is not commercially available yet, but hopefully it's a step in the right direction.

Stevia could CURE Lyme disease better than antibiotics | Daily Mail Online

Stevia, as a natural sugar replacement, is recommended for diabetics and others trying to reduce dietary sugar. Stevia-based products are used in a lot of commercial food products such as Pepsi and Coke. These are also easily available in health food stores, on Amazon etc. Stevia plants are also offered at a lot of nurseries. I have tried growing my own (it's also recommended as an insect repellent for herbs and flowers growing nearby) but it seems finicky and I've not been successful despite multiple tries. If interested, you can buy starter plants on Amazon. Growing Stevia from seed is not recommended by most gardening guides.

Last edited by ersatz; 07-15-2017 at 08:07 AM..
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Old 07-16-2017, 05:42 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,754 posts, read 17,972,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ersatz View Post
Recent news articles report a promising non-antibiotic drug under development. Obviously, there's a lot more development work that has to take place, and it is not commercially available yet, but hopefully it's a step in the right direction.

Stevia could CURE Lyme disease better than antibiotics | Daily Mail Online

Stevia, as a natural sugar replacement, is recommended for diabetics and others trying to reduce dietary sugar. Stevia-based products are used in a lot of commercial food products such as Pepsi and Coke. These are also easily available in health food stores, on Amazon etc. Stevia plants are also offered at a lot of nurseries. I have tried growing my own (it's also recommended as an insect repellent for herbs and flowers growing nearby) but it seems finicky and I've not been successful despite multiple tries. If interested, you can buy starter plants on Amazon. Growing Stevia from seed is not recommended by most gardening guides.
In your link Dr. Sapi states: "I worked with two students to take the Stevia plant extract and see if it worked to fight Lyme disease". We do not know how she made that extract, the dose, or method of administering the drug/extract. Right now we are still in the dark; but there is the possibility of light at the end of the tunnel. The researchers need time to do their research and clinical trials and we need patience. Hopefully, for those suffering, it will not be too long.
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Old 07-16-2017, 10:15 AM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,637 posts, read 28,442,766 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ersatz View Post
Recent news articles report a promising non-antibiotic drug under development. Obviously, there's a lot more development work that has to take place, and it is not commercially available yet, but hopefully it's a step in the right direction.

Stevia could CURE Lyme disease better than antibiotics | Daily Mail Online

Stevia, as a natural sugar replacement, is recommended for diabetics and others trying to reduce dietary sugar. Stevia-based products are used in a lot of commercial food products such as Pepsi and Coke. These are also easily available in health food stores, on Amazon etc. Stevia plants are also offered at a lot of nurseries. I have tried growing my own (it's also recommended as an insect repellent for herbs and flowers growing nearby) but it seems finicky and I've not been successful despite multiple tries. If interested, you can buy starter plants on Amazon. Growing Stevia from seed is not recommended by most gardening guides.

I'll have to read the article again in depth when I have more time but it certainly is promising. They do state that there are only certain forms of stevia that work so it's not the stevia that we might put into our coffee or use to sweeten a home made dessert. My dog has Lyme, he got the antibiotics, and gets the vaccine that only offers partial protection. Last year he had such a scary reaction to the vaccine that the vet doesn't recommend getting it again. It would be so much better (for humans and dogs!) if something readily available like stevia could work to cure Lyme.
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Old 07-16-2017, 05:14 PM
 
1,742 posts, read 2,368,495 times
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Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
In your link Dr. Sapi states: "I worked with two students to take the Stevia plant extract and see if it worked to fight Lyme disease". We do not know how she made that extract, the dose, or method of administering the drug/extract. Right now we are still in the dark; but there is the possibility of light at the end of the tunnel. The researchers need time to do their research and clinical trials and we need patience. Hopefully, for those suffering, it will not be too long.
That's very true, Fisheye. But, I've noticed that Lyme Disease patients tend to be interested, vocal, and involved. Dr Sapi is a Lyme Disease victim herself and has extensive contacts in the Lyme Disease community.

For anyone who has a deep personal interest in this topic, wants to learn more, get involved and support research into this disease, Dr. Sapi is seeking Lyme Disease community support for her research. She previously sought funding through Indieagogo. Lyme Disease.org has a permanent funding solicitation page (with updates on her work) that can be found at
https://www.lymedisease.org/join-us-...f-dr-eva-sapi/.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,754 posts, read 17,972,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ersatz View Post
That's very true, Fisheye. But, I've noticed that Lyme Disease patients tend to be interested, vocal, and involved. Dr Sapi is a Lyme Disease victim herself and has extensive contacts in the Lyme Disease community.

For anyone who has a deep personal interest in this topic, wants to learn more, get involved and support research into this disease, Dr. Sapi is seeking Lyme Disease community support for her research. She previously sought funding through Indieagogo. Lyme Disease.org has a permanent funding solicitation page (with updates on her work) that can be found at
https://www.lymedisease.org/join-us-...f-dr-eva-sapi/.
I hope that her research produces results that can be approved for human use. It is just way too early to predict the outcome. We have seen so many promising new treatments that went no place. I am just a grunt in the pharmaceutical business; but I know that there are many hurdles to overcome from the original idea to implementation. At work we have one new building that will be completed shortly (nothing to do with Lyme disease). But we will probably be lucky if it is running by 2022. We have validation and building licensing to go through and many other problems - I am not aware of them all. That is also a building that uses known technology; Dr. Sapi is still in the research stage.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:25 AM
 
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I have Lyme and know more about it than I ever wanted to. Yes, you still have Lyme. Unless it is caught and properly treated very early, it never completely goes away. If you are asymptomatic, it is because you knocked the bacteria down to a level that your immune system can handle and keep suppressed. If you have no symptoms, then I wouldn't treat it. However, if your immune system becomes compromised, it could definitely come back. It may never come back, or it may come back in a week. You really don't know.

What I would do is maintain a healthy diet. Gluten, sugar, and dairy free (basically Paleo) has been shown to be highly effective in keeping Lyme at bay, as the bacteria feed off of sugar. I would also consider an herbal regiment to keep it at bay. Check out Stephen Buhner's website or even better, buy his book. Trust me, you don't want it to become symptomatic.

As far as the Stevia thing goes, although it is interesting information, most Lyme experts are speaking out saying that the reports about the study are very misleading. Dr. Richard Horowitz, probably the leading authority on Lyme, just spoke up yesterday in fact about how the use of Stevia MAY be effective but only when when paired with several antibiotics, but not on it's own. Stephen Buhner, a well-known herbalist and expert on Lyme, also pretty much the same thing. This is a case of the media taking one small part of a study and running with it, leaving out most of the important parts.

I don't think a vaccine is the answer in this case. There are estimates that 80% of the population in endemic areas have been infected with Lyme and carry the antibodies. They probably don't even know it because they are asymptomatic. The problem with the vaccine that was available before is that it was reactivating these dormant infections. The new vaccine being developed works much the same way as the old, so I don't see how there will be a different outcome.

The keys, I think, are controlling the tick population and early, effective treatment. The biggest carriers of ticks are mice, deer, and birds. I can buy medicine for my dog that doesn't hurt the dog, doesn't hurt me, but will kill any tick that feeds on her. Why can't we develop a feed or bait that contains a similar medicine? Spread it around in endemic areas. Sell it at Home Depot for people to spread around their yards. Mice, rodents, deer, etc. will eat it. It won't hurt the deer, mice, etc., it will just kill the ticks. There is actually a university testing something to this right now.

We also need early, proper treatment. The CDC needs to flat out say they were wrong. Tests are ineffective in early infection. They kind of admitted this a few weeks ago. But doctors are still using their outdated guidelines. I have a friend who pulled a tick off of her young daughter. Her daughter got the classic bulls-eye rash. Even she knew it was Lyme. She took her to not one, not two, but FIVE different doctors. EVERY SINGLE ONE of them REFUSED to give her antibiotics. Because, "We don't have Lyme here." She ended up having to order antibiotics from India online. And this will never be reported as a case of Lyme to the CDC, further spreading the myth that we don't have Lyme here. Now if her daughter had acne, she could get a prescription for the same, exact antibiotic with no problem. If Lyme is properly treated in its early, acute stage with 6-8 weeks of antibiotics, it is curable. But soooooo many people aren't properly treated or aren't treated at all.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:39 AM
 
7,987 posts, read 10,327,724 times
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Originally Posted by ersatz View Post
That's very true, Fisheye. But, I've noticed that Lyme Disease patients tend to be interested, vocal, and involved. Dr Sapi is a Lyme Disease victim herself and has extensive contacts in the Lyme Disease community.

For anyone who has a deep personal interest in this topic, wants to learn more, get involved and support research into this disease, Dr. Sapi is seeking Lyme Disease community support for her research. She previously sought funding through Indieagogo. Lyme Disease.org has a permanent funding solicitation page (with updates on her work) that can be found at
https://www.lymedisease.org/join-us-...f-dr-eva-sapi/.
Funding for Lyme research is a joke. Lyme disease occurs 6 times more often annually than HIV/AIDS, but receives less than 1% of the funding from the National Institutes of Health. There are 141 times a many cases of Lyme Disease than West Nile Virus, but Lyme receives less than half the funding for research.

Even more troubling, even by the CDC's own admission, the current testing is only about 50% accurate. A Johns Hopkins study found them to only be about 30% accurate. But the CDC refuses to recognize other (more accurate) labs and has failed to develop better testing. Even more troubling is that the people at the CDC who make these decisions, have financial interests in the test kits currently being sold. Same goes for the vaccine being developed. It's one big conflict of interest.

I think we will see this change soon. What's happening is that politicians are getting it themselves or have family members who get infected. That's when they realize what a mess the handling of this disease has been and laws start getting passed. Virginia now requires doctors to tell patients that the Lyme test is inaccurate. Some states require insurance companies to pay for long-term antibiotic treatment.

In my own state, a state senator was infected. He had to get 17, yes seventeen, doctors to coordinate with each other just to be able to get the amount of antibiotics he needed. He introduced and had a bill pass to allow doctors to prescribe long-term antibiotics for Lyme.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,754 posts, read 17,972,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnivalGal View Post
Funding for Lyme research is a joke. Lyme disease occurs 6 times more often annually than HIV/AIDS, but receives less than 1% of the funding from the National Institutes of Health. There are 141 times a many cases of Lyme Disease than West Nile Virus, but Lyme receives less than half the funding for research.

Even more troubling, even by the CDC's own admission, the current testing is only about 50% accurate. A Johns Hopkins study found them to only be about 30% accurate. But the CDC refuses to recognize other (more accurate) labs and has failed to develop better testing. Even more troubling is that the people at the CDC who make these decisions, have financial interests in the test kits currently being sold. Same goes for the vaccine being developed. It's one big conflict of interest.

I think we will see this change soon. What's happening is that politicians are getting it themselves or have family members who get infected. That's when they realize what a mess the handling of this disease has been and laws start getting passed. Virginia now requires doctors to tell patients that the Lyme test is inaccurate. Some states require insurance companies to pay for long-term antibiotic treatment.

In my own state, a state senator was infected. He had to get 17, yes seventeen, doctors to coordinate with each other just to be able to get the amount of antibiotics he needed. He introduced and had a bill pass to allow doctors to prescribe long-term antibiotics for Lyme.
My wife had a female nymph on her and we quickly found out that we do not have a great system. The size of the female nymph is scary; it's so small. My wife only noticed it because it felt like a mole where she thought she had none and then asked me to look. We have one of the six inch illuminated magnifying glasses on a light stand. I looked at it and could not tell it was a tick until I pulled it off with tweezers and set it on a white sheet of paper - then I saw it move! It is very easy to believe that many of us will never know we are bitten; until we develop systems.

As if the size is not bad enough; trying to find a doctor that will help is a totally different issue. We trapped the small tick in an old medicine bottle and tried to get a doctor to tell us if it was infected - could not find one. Most wanted us to wait for symptoms but it is recommended to have early treatment. Also the female nymphs have to feed on a person from 36 to 48 hours to transmit the disease - but where do you find out that information? Fortunately I remembered a local newspaper article about our local college and identifying the Lyme ticks - so I called them. They said to bring it down; which we did. They looked at it under the microscope and told us the it had fed for over 36 hours and it was a deer tick nymph that carries the disease. They told us for $100 (I think; if I recall correctly) they would send it out for testing and then tell us if it carried the disease. The problem with that is that the clock is ticking (for takin a successful prescription of antibiotics) if you have been infected. It takes about a week to get the results back.

Anyway; when we got home we called our family doctor and told them what happened and asked if they could prescribe the antibiotic to stop the infection before it started. They did cooperate - however; my wife threw up immediately after taking the one strong does of the antibiotic. She was only given one pill. We did not know whether it did any good; but a week later the results came back that the tick was not carrying the disease!

We have to do better. We also have to have leadership to form a successful approach/game plan to deal with this disease.
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:13 PM
 
1,742 posts, read 2,368,495 times
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Originally Posted by CarnivalGal View Post
The keys, I think, are controlling the tick population and early, effective treatment. The biggest carriers of ticks are mice, deer, and birds. I can buy medicine for my dog that doesn't hurt the dog, doesn't hurt me, but will kill any tick that feeds on her. Why can't we develop a feed or bait that contains a similar medicine? Spread it around in endemic areas. Sell it at Home Depot for people to spread around their yards. Mice, rodents, deer, etc. will eat it. It won't hurt the deer, mice, etc., it will just kill the ticks. There is actually a university testing something to this right now.
Controlling the local tick population is very important. While looking around the publically available Lyme information I was surprised to learn that one of the most effective tick control mechanisms is the local possum population. Just one possum typically destroys an average of 5000 ticks per season.
Opossums Kill Ticks, Inhibit the Spread of Lyme Disease

So, although I wouldn't encourage them as housepets or anything like that, be kind to the lil guys! My Ballard » ‘Cat found’ poster shows one mean kitty
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