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Yes, aides are trained in a specific way...wish the supervisor would have been available early on...
will have to disagree re gmother as a risk.
As a medical professional, have witnessed many patients slip off toilet, fall when getting down or up...some have had strokes or fainted for whatever reason. Patients are hospitalized because they have health problems, plus advanced age in your case....just cannot be too careful.
If she HAD fallen, your anger would be towards staff...
I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmancpa
Supervisor came in before I really had a chance to step in. At that point I just kept to the side.
Again, fall risk or not (which I agreed she was), an 84 year old woman already sitting on the potty wasn't a risk at that point. I don't know if "policy" is open or cracked open door, but the supervisor allowed cracked open door and it's been that way since. The aide would have been the same 3' away open or cracked door and could easily have reacted IF my mother started to get up (she said she wouldn't). I think the aide as programmed to do the job, and not trained to assess a particular situation. My Dad made it worst but I couldn't jump in and intervene in time before everyone was in the room.
An 84 year old woman, with a urinary tract infection, sitting on a toilet in an unfamiliar setting "wasn't a risk" for falling ?!? Sheesh.
It wasn't that she would promise not to get up without help it was more that she could have easily became dizzy or lightheaded or faint and just topple off the toilet. With all of the tile on the walls and floor that is a recipe for disaster (broken bones, traumatic brain injury, etc).
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCZ
The patient was a fall risk and should have been watched, and the hospital has to adhere to their JCAHO-mandated fall policy. The hospital already has a policy which was implemented due to government regulations and standards-of-care guidelines, and the advice the OP received to tell the administration they need a policy on this is ludicrous. The family was in the wrong for not stepping out of the room to give the patient some privacy which would have allowed the nurse to do her job and prevented this whole sorry scenario, which was likely more distressing to the patient than the open door..
I agree.
PS. I didn't mean to be so hard on you, but if you want your mom to have good care and be safe in the hospital/care facility YOU need to do your part, too.
You and dad & the other two people should have stepped out of the room to let the CNA/nurse do their job. And, you should have "controlled" your dad with dementia or not allowed him to visit.
My husband has mild dementia, and during my three recent hospital stays, as well as my six months of cancer treatment we never took him to the hospital or to doctor's appointments. It was just not appropriate as it would have been too stressful for him, as well as very stressful to me & the other family members with me, even though my hubby sounds much higher functioning than your dad. Really think about that during Mom's next hospital stay.
Last edited by germaine2626; 09-15-2017 at 09:17 AM..
Reason: added PS.
I think more to the OP's point it was a CF and handled completely in appropriately. Hopefully this will help the hospital deal with further issues in regards to your mother.
My partner (who runs hospitals), agrees with the adage that it is the hospital's job to protect patients. However, this must be accomplished within the framework of the patient's personal rights. I would have made it my life's work to have one or both of those nurses fired had they called security on me for getting upset with what sounds like an utter lack of empathy and competence. And I would have gone straight to an ombudsman or the head of patient relations. I don't care how overworked or understaffed hospitals are. I'm quite sure their entire staff isn't composed of male nurses, and they obviously need better training when it comes to providing adequate bathroom privacy for their patients—even those who are considered fall risks.
You need to reread what she posted. They were called in cause her father was yelling and swearing. He does have dementia.
Really getting nurses fired for something like this? Plus you misunderstood what she wrote.
I do not understand people who its their duty in life to get others fired. Can you not find something else to do to make yourself feel better about yourself than raise h^ll to get people fired? (Your life's work!) Most likely for some small infraction you blew up into something big. Never mind missing out on what the real issue was.
If you had any kind of awareness you'd get the rest of us wonder how you sleep at night. YOU talking not caring how overworked the staff is and about a lack of empathy. That is a good one.
Last edited by foundapeanut; 09-15-2017 at 09:28 AM..
My Mom (84) was admitted into the hospital a week ago with a urinary tract infection. She's had a tough time of late. A couple of years go my Dad got a bad blood infection which we believe took early stage dementia into a full-blown case, and now he can't do or remember much of anything. Since Mom relied on him for everything, I took over their finances (I'm a CPA) and got health proxy for him. This year Mom gets lymphoma and recently finished chemo and then needed further radiation. Just the quick back story.
She's been in the hospital before, hooked up to IV on the wheeled tree before. A nurse or aide takes her to the bathroom, cracks the door open and stands outside. All is good. Three days in they move her to another room (nicer/larger). So I'm visiting her in the new room with my brother, my Dad, and the caregiver (have 24/7 at home for parents). With the UTI and other issues she's been having problems going. She buzzes and an aide comes in and Mom says she wants to try to pee (first time in new room). She's taken to the bathroom, and the aide keeps the door wide open while standing there. I hear my mother request calmly to please crack the door and stand outside, but the aide says it's against hospital policy. So then a few minutes of back and forth with Mom trying desperately to have the door cracked because she can't go with door open. After several minutes Dad decides to get involved. He raises his voice, and drops expletives, normal for him when his blood boils. As words are exchanged more heated the nurse says to my Dad she's ready to call security on him. It could be heard easily on the floor, and within minutes there is the charge nurse, RN, and the aide by the open bathroom door and four more workers outside the door. My mother is trying to explain she's always been able to go with a cracked door, why not now? My Mom was telling everyone she was sitting now, keep the door cracked, and when I'm done I'll tell you so you can come in and get me up. Then the words fall risk comes into play. More arguing, then a male nurse/aide comes in by the door. Poor Mom with all these people, and then a male. FINALLY the charge nurse tells the aide it's OK to crack the door and some semblance of order is restored. Five useless minutes.
I thought it was played poorly by the staff. For one, I do not think it was ever fully explained to Mom what the limitations of a fall risk were. Logically I could not understand why the door had to be wide open. The aide could have made a call based on my Mom's age and other factors and could have just cracked the door and still been within feet of her. I get there is liability, but a patients dignity should also be in play which it didn't seem to me it was. How anyone couldn't see Mom was a low risk to go against her words and lie about the bathroom was ludicrous to me.
My daughter is a nurse in the Army. We discussed the incident. I told her I was debating telling hospital management of what happened. Not sure what that would do to be honest. At this point will probably let it go.
Do you think based on what I've stated that the hospital was correct?
I think the entire family should have left the room when she said she needed to go to the bathroom. She didn't need you as an audience. She didn't need you all jumping in on this. Things may have been fine if the entire family wasn't standing there staring at an 84 year old women with a UTI try to urinate. Surely, she wanted privacy from you!
The hospital does have to watch it's liability because of the risk of falling and injury. People are VERY sue happy. Even after women have a baby when they first go to use the restroom frequently a nurse is standing at the door and they don't always close the door - depends on the hospital and their policies and if there have been any complications. I would say this is perfectly normal and usual for an elderly woman who has a medical issue.
I think what this really comes down to is an eye-opening moment for the OP, that suddenly Dad's dementia has robbed him of the ability to hold his temper and behave appropriately, and that Mom is suddenly so frail after several days of hospitalization that she can't pee unsupervised.
It's scary to suddenly realize your parents have gotten that old. And it will only get worse. Right now, the best way to handle things is to give Mom more privacy than you think she requires. Yes, the bathroom was at the far end of the hospital room, but she's already had to give up much of her modesty and expectation of privacy during her hospital stay, and she's trying hard to hold on to her dignity in front of her kids. And take Dad out of any situations that have the potential to become unpleasant. When my mom was in the hospital, I had to take my dad for a walk any time someone came in to examine my mother, which was bad because she was too ill to remember anything they told her and I missed out on discussions with her doctors because managing my father so my mom could be examined was more urgent.
I think the entire family should have left the room when she said she needed to go to the bathroom. She didn't need you as an audience. She didn't need you all jumping in on this. Things may have been fine if the entire family wasn't standing there staring at an 84 year old women with a UTI try to urinate. Surely, she wanted privacy from you!
The hospital does have to watch it's liability because of the risk of falling and injury. People are VERY sue happy. Even after women have a baby when they first go to use the restroom frequently a nurse is standing at the door and they don't always close the door - depends on the hospital and their policies and if there have been any complications. I would say this is perfectly normal and usual for an elderly woman who has a medical issue.
I noticed often while spending 4.5 months in 3 rehabs, those with a lot of family members took up so much limited space in those small rooms with often 2 or 3 beds...unless, of course, IF one has a private room. I lived thru a lot of noise from those family members....how can anyone heal with all the commotion. My take on it all.
I'm not ready to respond individually to some comments at this time, but let me simplify. Since none of you were in the room, and I didn't write a detailed book to make you feel like you were there....
If someone is standing outside the bathroom door wide open 6' away from my Mom, please tell me how much of life saving time would be saved if the same person was standing outside the door with it cracked open and holding the door ready to swing it open the same 6' away. I'll reiterate one point, in that if 100 people were in the room, NO ONE could see in the bathroom nor could my Mom see anyone other who was right there at the door. Her discomfort and uneasiness was simply having the door open.
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Sheesh.
